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Featured Faith vs Faith and Repentance

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Guido, Nov 14, 2022.

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  1. Guido

    Guido Active Member

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    It is often stated that faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin. Are we saved by faith then, or by a coin?
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Saved by God crediting our faith as righteous faith. I believe if our faith is superficial, lacking a deep commitment to follow Christ on the paths of righteousness, God will probably not credit it. Thus faith must be, using James terminology, "live faith" and not "dead faith." Matthew 13 tells of superficial faith not making the cut, and failing to make Christ our overriding priority also result in rejection.
     
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  3. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    God's elect are justified by the sovereign grace of God in His sight before the foundation of the world.

    "Those whose sins were laid upon Christ are just, and therefore appear so to God. Isaiah 53:11. Those against whom nothing can be charged, are just, and appear so to God. Romans 8:33. Those who are in Christ are just; and the elect were so before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:4. Those who are reconciled must needs be just; and this the elect were before the world. “God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself,” II Corinthians 5:19, and they were actually reconciled, in and by Christ on the Cross, by “the death of his Son.” Romans 5:10. Therefore, this was before we believed. Those who are justified are just; and this the elect were by Christ’s blood. Romans 5:9. Those who are redeemed by Christ are made just, “in whom we have redemption by his blood.” Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14, &c. Those whose sins were all remitted are made just; and so are all the sins of all the elect by Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:18-21. Those who have a share in Christ’s righteousness, they are righteous; but so have all the elect. 2 Corinthians 5:21. Those to whom God imputes no sin, they are just and righteous, but God imputes no sin to the elect. “God was in Christ --- not imputing their trespasses unto them,” 2 Corinthians 5:19, therefore they were then blessed.

    All the elect were made these by Christ upon the Cross. Therefore, they were then justified. They were justified before they believed. Yea, God gave them grace in Jesus Christ before the world began, and manifested this grace by Christ’s appearing. “Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began; but is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ.” 2 Timothy 1:9-10. But it is objected that these Scriptures are to be considered to be spoken unto believers only, and whom God did so look upon because believers. I answer, if it were so, that is enough for me, if they appear so to God. Now they believe, they appeared so to God from eternity, for what God now sees, He ever did, and ever shall. Knowledge is His sight, or else He was not ever infinite in knowledge; but that He is and ever was. “O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!” Romans 11:33. Therefore, the elect ever had a being in the knowledge and love of God; and therefore, God looks upon the elect before they believe as well as after; and seeing the love of God is and ever was infinite, for God is love, I John 4:16, God has loved them as Christ was loved. John 17:23. Therefore, God loves not any the more, or the better because they believe."

    - from Justification by Faith Alone, by Samuel Richardson
     
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  4. Guido

    Guido Active Member

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    Many are lost by reason of lies, wherein they have put their trust, that faith by itself is insufficient to save, that along with faith, there must be works, for merit or proof of salvation.
     
  5. Guido

    Guido Active Member

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    If there is such thing as dead faith, then at one time it was alive, and thus, to lose one's salvation is not impossible, if the faith of the saved must continue for them to be saved.
     
    #5 Guido, Nov 14, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2022
  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that you believe that a saved person can be lost, or do you believe that Christ will keep all of those who are saved?
     
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  7. Guido

    Guido Active Member

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    I was not finished with my post. Sorry.
     
  8. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Of course God's elect will continue in faith. Yes, they are still sinners and might stray off course and be brought back by the Lord, but they are still saved.

    Salvation is not like a daisy - Days He loves me, and days He doesn't.

    John 10:27-30 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.

    Jude 1:24-25 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
     
  9. Guido

    Guido Active Member

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    The issue at hand is not eternal security, which I believe, but the kind of faith that is needed for salvation.
     
  10. Guido

    Guido Active Member

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    I don't have a working laptop right now, so I can't discuss anything in detail.
     
  11. Guido

    Guido Active Member

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    Also, I haven't been able to think or write well for a long time now, so I need to take a break. I also need to do some studying of these theological issues.
     
  12. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Faith is a gift from God, as well as repentance(Ephesians 2:8, Acts of the Apostles 11:18). Therefore, whatever "kind of faith that is needed for salvation" is provided by God. God's elect rest in Christ and His perfect righteousness alone. They are not to look to anything in themselves nor performed by them. As the old hymn, written by Edward Mote, says,

    When He shall come with trumpet sound,
    O may I then in Him be found:
    Dressed in His righteousness alone,
    Faultless to stand before the throne.
     
  13. Guido

    Guido Active Member

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    So is it possible for someone to want to believe but not be able to?
     
  14. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    If God makes someone willing(Psalms 110:3), then He also grants them saving faith and repentance from dead works(Hebrews 6:1). If God does not make them willing to look to Christ's perfect righteousness alone for salvation, then they won't desire to believe the gospel. They might believe a false gospel, but they won't believe the gospel of Christ.
     
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  15. Guido

    Guido Active Member

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    What are dead works?
     
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    24 Straightway the father of the child cried out, and said, I believe; help thou mine unbelief. Mk 9
     
  17. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Looking to our own works and efforts for salvation or for assurance.
     
  18. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    The fact that the two places that 'dead works' are mentioned are in Hebrews should give a clue:

    20 because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin. Ro 3
     
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Neither. We are saved by the gift of salvation through faith. Mark 1:15, Romans 6:23, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 1:16.
     
  20. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Active Member

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    Look at it like this. Let's just say you're going along and you decide or you realize that you believe that you can look to Jesus for your salvation. In order to do that though you had to first realize that the path you were on was NOT the right path and what you were doing, whether gross sinning or self righteous works was wrong. So you repented of what you had been doing and looked to Jesus. That's why people say it's two sides of the same coin.
     
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