The topic is final authority and final canonization.
The question is do you have scripture ?
Pleases answer the question and state your theory of final authority
and final canonization.
Final Authority and Final Canonization
Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by makahiya117, Mar 22, 2013.
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If I may say so, you write like English is your second language. If that is the case may I ask what your first language is and which Bible translation you use in that language? -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
If you can't answer this, then your theory is useless. God's plan is the evangelization of the world, and the translation team I head has that as a major goal. If you think that is useless or silly then you've completely missed the Christian boat.
P. S. Please be quick with your answer. Today is my translation day, and if you have a Scriptural answer for me I need to know right away. I'll be working on the final draft of 1 Tim. this morning, and my Japanese translation partner, Uncle Miya, and I will work on the 2nd draft of Luke 10 this afternoon. :flower: -
I'll Answer That John...
My answer to that would be to use the TR as your "original language" "base" while also still consulting the readings supernaturally preserved and rendered for us in the KJV and any of the English versions that preceeded it. This is because (2 Timothy 3:16) "all Scripture is given by inspiration"...and all of the above mentioned manuscripts and translations qualify as "scripture" that God has said He would "preserve.....from this generation for ever." (Psalm 12:6,7).....Beyond that...or better....BEFORE, DURING, and AFTER that...PRAY, PRAY, PRAY...and then PRAY some more that God will give you guidance and wisdom in the correct translation and rendering of His Holy Word in that very difficult language. Brother...I will offer up some prayers on yours and Uncle Miya's behalf. God Bless you!
Bro.Greg:saint: -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I am quite different from Makahiya117 in that I have a doctrine (not a theory) from the Word of God itself of final authority, developed after many hours of Bible study, and know exactly what I believe about it. I didn't get it from Ruckman, Riplinger, or anyone else writing in any way shape or form on the matter. I have it written out in a 17 page outline, all from Scripture. My challenge to anyone who wants to argue on the subject (such as Makahiya), go to the Word, do actual study and deep study of every single passage on the subject, then come back to me.
Unfortunately, many in the KJVO camp have not thought in the slightest about translations on the mission fields of the world. And when they do, they don't go to us missionaries to get the facts. I have a number of stories about that, but I'll just give one. A brother missionary was asked by a pastor if we had a "Japanese KJV," and he said we don't, which is exactly the right answer. The pastor then rejected him for support because Ruckman had said that there is such a thing as a "Japanese KJV." That pastor was unjust and foolish. And Ruckman is clueless.
P. S. Makahiya is too late with his answer. It's evening in Japan, I'm done with translation for today, and have come home. Maybe he can help me for next week, though, if he has an answer by then. :saint: -
Just Curious
Bro.Greg:saint: -
If the word "scripture" at 2 Timothy 3:16 is claimed to include translations, would not the "all" assert that it would have to include all translations?
Do the Scriptures suggest that God would show partiality to one group of scholars in their translating decisions and would not guide other translators such as William Tyndale, Miles Coverdale, John Rogers, the translators of the Geneva Bible, the Baptists who revised the KJV in 1842, or the translators of the NKJV in exactly the same manner?
Instead of "word" preservation which would involve the exact words that God gave the prophets and apostles or "jot and tittle" preservation (which would be the type or types of preservation that KJV-only advocates claim is taught in the Scriptures), are you advocating some type of "meaning" preservation where even dynamic equivalent renderings as some in the KJV would still be claimed to be a preserving of the actual words God gave originally? -
What I have said, I have said...
I will await Bro.John's reply to my comments in light of his experience both as an active missionary and an active translator of the God's Word. I am praying that God will bless his and Uncle Miya's work. As far as I'm concerned, believing as I do, I believe the translation of God's Word into English is a done deal. I'm just not willing to engage in trying to "re-invent the wheel"...so to speak. There is no edification to be had in it. My advise to you as a fellow Christian is that you should always seek to engender confidence among others in the "words" of God so that that are not left in doubt about them. If I believed what I have seen of your writings then for me that would NOT be the case. Just something to think about.
Bro.Greg:saint: -
It would not be clear enough if you will not apply your reasoning or assertions consistently since inconsistency could indicate possible use of divers measures. -
All We are doing is....
Bro.Greg:saint: -
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
What I will say is:
1. God forever settles His Word in Heaven (Ps. 119:89).
2. Humans are tasked with preserving His Word on earth. There are many, many cases in the Bible where humans did so. Just one example is when kings of Israel were commanded to write out their own copy of the Word. Far too much time is spent in arguing about preservation, and far too little time is spent in actually preserving the Word of God (missionary translation, etc.).
3. I do believe God guides in translation. He often helps our task. When I have "finalized" a chapter of the NT there is an incredible feeling that here is the sacred Word of God. But there is nothing in the Bible that says my translation is inspired of God. -
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To Clarify....
Bro.Greg:saint: -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
In Old Testament Israel, the priests were entrusted by God with the task of preserving the Scriptures (Deut. 17:18, Ezek. 44:8 and 15, Mal. 2:7). Remember that the Decalogue of Moses was to be kept in the ark of the covenant (Deut 31:26), and that the Temple was where the scrolls of Scripture were to be kept (2 Kings 22:9-10).
In the Church Age, each individual believer is a priest of God (1 Peter 2:5 & 9, Rev. 1:6, 5:10, 20:6). Therefore, each individual believer has a personal responsibility to preserve the Word of God. He can do this in many ways: memorization and study (preserving it in his heart and life), printing, textual criticism, translation, teaching (preserving it in the hearts and lives of the listeners), etc. -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Let me illustrate what I mean here when I say that human preservation should come first. Right now there is a big controversy over which Spanish version is the true Spanish KJV. (Personally, I consider it impossible for a Bible in some other language to be a "KJV," but I digress.) There are two, some say three, versions vying for that. Articles have been written, lectures given, websites started, even books printed. While I appreciate the motives, I think most of those involved are missing the point of human preservation! If God is preserving His Word, we can do nothing better than getting it out to the people who need it for salvation, knowledge of God and growth!
Let God do His part, but our part is the earthly preservation of the Word. This is why when I toured a well known printing ministry in the States last year (very impressive), I was happy to learn that they print TWO different Spanish Bibles that claim the throne of King James! Man, let's just get the Word out and let God sort out the "true version!" -
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