Being the other thread was closed I will start another for feedback.
Let me ask both sides. This may not be considered relative to the OP but I think it is.
God created Adam and gave him some instructions, then he made a help meet from him.
At this point in time can we assume God had a knowing relationship with all of mankind? Yes or No
I am not sure what I mean by knowing but I think maybe I mean covenant or the kind of a relationship between husband and wife.
Now answer that same question for these points in time and lets compare the answers.
Noah
Abram before name change
Abraham after name change
Moses
When Herod became king
70 AD
Presently
My answers are, yes followed by seven no's.
We can cover the why's later if anyone is interested.
For feedback.
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by percho, Apr 11, 2011.
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But I would say "yes" to all. He's God. He knows everything and everyone. Anything less than that demeans God. But maybe your definition of know isn't mine. -
He knew them in the context that he was married to them. You can not say this about Moab or Babylon or even Edom the brother of Israel.
Other than at the time of Adam and Eve can it be said in the context above that God has a knowing relationship with all living mankind. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
perco,
God only is in covenant with the elect. -
Therefore it isn't a question of being predestined for heaven or hell but being predestined for the purpose of God. -
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Psalm 2
1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.
5Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him
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I believe there are certain essentials for getting CT right. Some of them are:
1. Just as covenants of suzerainty were covenants between conquering/conquered or strong/weak nations, God's covenants with man are imposed covenants. They are in effect by virtue of God's election to impose it. (e.g., God to Abram: "I have called you out"). (Hence the easy marriage of CT and Calvinism).
2. They are all conditional, including the new covenant that requires the obedience of faith. (The Noahic Covenant is the only debatable one and may be the only exception to this rule).
3. All covenants contain blessings for obedience and cursings for disobedience.
4. All covenants have a federal nature to them, so that they apply by extension in some way to all people without exception.
There are plenty of other important features of CT, but for me it wasn't until I understood these that I felt like I had a grip on CT as a biblical hermeneutic.
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Hi Percho, Adam and Eve before the fall we not "spiritually dead;" they were in the garden and walked and talked with God. After the fall, they were separated from God, put out of the garden, and prevented supernaturally from ever returning to the tree of life. Now everyone conceived after that (except Jesus) was born in that "sinful separated from God, dead in sin state.) The many (everyone but Jesus) were made sinners by the act of disobedience of Adam.
But that status does not apply to everyone because God provided a means to return to the tree of life, through faith in Christ Jesus. And so, as was accurately pointed out by others, people who have been chosen and spiritually placed in Christ, have been made alive together with Christ, and therefore are "known" meaning an intimate relationship.
Of course I think Calvinists have totally botched the order of salvation, but at least they are spot on with the result of salvation. -
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I believe this verse agrees with you being if the Commandments were only for Israel then no one else would be guilty of transgression.
Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. -
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Take the definite article away and it would solve a lot of Van's errors in his following post as well as a lot of others. Read James Coffman on Habakkuk 2:4 while I do not agree totally with him he is closer than most. This part I think he has correct, "The just shall live by my faith,"F10 a clear reference not to the inward act of believing on the part of God's servant, (What follows I disagree.) but to the "faith" or "religion" God had enjoined.
I believe it is the faith of (literally) Christ. The, the doesn't belong.
By grace are you saved through faith. The faith of Christ.
Lets look at Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Our isn't there however here the is there. The author and finisher of the faith.
? The faith brought about by obedience. Look at the balance of the verse and compare it to Hebrews 5:7,8. Balance, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Then: Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Through obedience of faith he became: Next verse in Hebrews 5 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Eternal salvation equals eternal life the gift of God. -
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Hi Percho, I see that you made mention of "Van's errors in his following post" but did not indicate what they might be?
I believe when we put our faith in Christ, that provides our access to God's grace. Romans 5:2. Is that the error you are referring to?
I believe God credits "our" faith in Christ as righteousness, Romans 4:4-5. Is that the error you are referring to?
Jesus said Your faith has saved you?
Whoever believes in Him?
Is the error you refer to my belief we put our trust in Christ? -
Rom. 3:25 is very interesting also in this concept. -
I would value your comments on what i wrote concerning the Hebrews passages.
Thanks -
I don't know if that helps or just shows my ignorance but in any case I'm tired and don't really know what I'm saying so I'm logging off now. Bye. -
Reply to Percho
Now concerning that I proved your point, that seems a tad weak!
Romans 5:3 says Abraham believed in God and and it was credited to him as righteousness. No "faith of Christ" here, just God crediting Abraham's faith as righteousness. Then in verse 5, the one who believes in Him who justifies the ungodly. If you look at the Greek, the word translated "in" actually means "on" so those who place their faith on Christ are in view, not the action of having Christ's faith placed on them.
Now in Romans 5:2 we see that we have obtained our access or introduction to the grace in which we stand (our salvation) by faith. If the faith was given us, then that faith would not provide access to grace, it would be grace.
There are four verses that are commonly translated faith in Christ but should be translated Christ's faithfulness or faithfulness of Christ. But that still leaves many many verses that clearly indicate we are to believe in Christ, not that we are to be instilled with Christ's faith.
Let's leave it that you believe I am in error, and I believe you are in error on this point.