For God so loved the world

It is apparently never going to change. It is easier to mirepresent and mislead and twist others' words and make false accusations than it is to debate issues fairly and with integrity. It is amazing to me how much bearing false witness goes on here "in the name of Christ".

Of course, this has the potential to become a "they do it more than we do" discussion. Posters on both sides do it, and it makes no difference who does it more.

A little unsolicited advice - go back and read posts from the last month or so. It will not take long for you to find out who you can actually discuss things with and who you should ignore.

 

It does not "become false" simply by having Calvinist after calvinist "ignore the details".

It does not "become false" by observing the Points that Johnathan Edwards make IN FAVOR of the scenarios.

It does not "become false" simply because Calvinists complain that it exposes a weakness in Calvinism's view of God.

Although this would appear to be obvious - it seems that we are treated to those arguments time after time after time.

But in deference to your point I will save off the link to this "last time" posted and the reader can then note how it is 'dodged' even here in this thread that is ON the supposed idea that God does NOT love the lost. A subject STARTED by Calvinists!!

Not interested in a review of "Romans 9" anymore?

NOT interested in how Calvinism (Johnathan Edwards style) SHOWS God not loving/caring for the lost.

Calvinism's view of God arbitrarily enjoying the torment of "the many" and not of the "FEW" of Matt 7 -- can be shown/exposed time after time only to have Calvinists claim that the "Details are posted".

The odd thing is that the Calvinist response of "we have been dodging this for so long - doesn't that mean it should go away now" is so "compelling to Calvinists"!!

The other "odd thing" is that ON a thread about God LOVING or NOT LOVING the lost in hell - Calvinists would find it appropriate to whine about the way Calvinism shows God NOT LOVING those in hell!!!

Very "instructive" --

In Christ,

Bob

 

Bob,

We could explain it to you again, or you could just go back and read it, but it is up to whether you are going to understand it. Instead of listening to what we say you continue to misrepresent Calvinism and bear false witness against Calvinists. Repent.

whatever

 

WEll put Bob, I don't understand the compelling force to make God a hater, respecter of persons, responsable for sin and on and on. I just don't get calvinist! They try very hard at character assination with the God of the Bible.

 

You don't even try to get Calvinists. We don't make God a hater. He is not a respecter of persons, and He is not responsible for sin. Why try so hard at character assassination of fellow believers?

 

You don't even try to get Calvinists. We don't make God a hater. He is not a respecter of persons, and He is not responsible for sin. Why try so hard at character assassination of fellow believers? </font>[/QUOTE] Okay whatever

 

All in the name of Sovereignty, irresistible grace and limited atonement (the last two of which - even 3 point Calvinists can't swallow).

In Christ,

Bob

 

As I recall the first time around involved

#1. Ignoring the details
#2. Ignoring the points where EVEN Edwards Agreed.
#3. Ignoring the details where even Pastor Larry's posts were in support of "details" trying to be ignored in Calvinist reponses.
#4. AGREEMENT from JohnP that God IS the Author of sin.
#5. Charges that (and I quote) "God Hates HAtes Hates" coming from Calvinists!
#6. JohnP finally responding with an argument that "election is determined by GENETICS" -- an argument that got NO corrective mention at all from any other Calvinist.

Your "record" to this point is so abysmal that I am surprised you would bring it up!!

In Christ,

Bob

 

Well my posts - repeated on this thread for the umpteenth time are certainly available with the DETAILS in living color.

IF you have a LINK to anything like a response-to-details already given, you are free to "post the link" if nothing else.

But the fact is that you and others here spent far more time "posting" complainst about why you were going to once-again ignore the "details" listed in the challenges to Calvinism -- that I doubt that you even have a post for "actual response to details" to link to.

But I am open to seeing one.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Go find it, then. It is there. Basically the problem is that your scenario is built of straw. You well know that have been told why. There is no reason for you to pretend otherwise.

 

I think of the sign in the window of the small eating establishment;
"All the fried chicken you can eat $1", every time the discussion of John 3:16 arises. Does it mean that the 3 pieces on the plate is all you can eat for $1, or you can eat and eat til you get sick.
I think more then likely the purplehaired person standing in the endzone of the NFL football game
holding up the sign referred to the latter.

 

I did MORE than simply LINK to the specific extensive DETALS of the argument FOR God loving the World -- I actually POSTED those same points AGAIN - here on this thread.

Even the Calvinists readily admit that these devastating points have ALREADY been posted -- "more than once".

They "Then claim" that they TOO have ANSWERS already posted - AS IF they actually HAD answered the devastating points raised against the speculative views of Calvinism in the posts I gave most recently here

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/35/1543/2.html#000015.

To which I respond that they have spent soooo much time DODGING rather than ANSWERING that it is doubtful even THEY can find one of TheIR OWN posts with "actual answers" -- dealing with the DETAILS rather than dodging them "repeatedly".

My challenge to the Calvinist SIDE - that they 'try and seek out' an actual example of "detailed answers" to the detailed objections raised in MY LINK above -- is met with the following "dodge"

Obviously this is dodge-squared!!

Is there no limit??!!!

I post the actual CONTENT of my OWN position and since you ask -- NOW I ALSO point LINKs to MY OWN position.

What is your response to stepping up to that plate and "doing the SAME" for your OWN answers that you repeatedly boast to "exist"???

You want ME to sift through all the dodge-responses of the Calvinist side to SEE IF I can find one of your answers that is actually detailed, compelling and thorough in addressing the DETAILS raised in the objections starting at the link I GIVE above..

So far "dodging" is the Calvinist method of "response" on this.

In Christ,

Bob

 

KJB,

 

The thread is on "God so Loved the World.. Yes REALLY" -- Supposedly talking about the reality of God "Actually" loving even the lost or God ONLY loving the "FEW" of Matt 7 -- the saved.

The latest post seems to want to talk instead about "Who has free will".

If we can almost all agree that at the fall ALL of mankind came under the dominion of sin and death and ALL got a sinful nature and ALL are depraved as in the Rom 3:9-11 specifics - then it is easy to see that ALL are ENSLAVED to sin as Romans 6 says.

In that case the FREEDOM from sin comes as Christ said from the fact that ALL are subject to His DRAWING (John 12:32) and ALL are BENEFITED by the 2nd ADam (Romans 5) as were harmed by the deeds of the FIRST Adam (Romans 5).

So that brings us back again - to this issue of God "really" So loving "The WORLD" or "not".

In Christ,

Bob

 

Here are some compelling and thorough details for you.

1) You have no clue what Calvinists actually believe. Well, maybe half a clue, but no more than that.

2) You build a strawman representation of what Calvinists believe and then expect Calvinists to deal with objections to your strawman as if they were objections to what we actually believe.

3) To respond to arguments against what we do not even believe would be as foolish on our part as your persisting in your strawman myths is foolish on your part.

4) The responses are there. I will not do your work for you. If you actually want responses then go back and find them. If you do not want responses then quit posting your same old word-twisting rubbish.

 

How does it glorify God for you to teach that God is a God of random hate?