For God so loved the world

not really Bob,

I place the link to show this..


Bob Says..
**********************************
Notice "children of A God" just does not work here.
Notice "Nor of the will of man, but of A God" is not workable. No justification for such abuse of the text.
*******************************************

Then you say…"children of A God" just does not work here. Where does it not work? You mean change the wording? Why must we remove “children of A God”.

Then you add…"Nor of the will of man, but of A God" is not workable. Again…why do we need to over look these 2 statements?

It seems like to me you are saying..if the truth hurts…overlook it.
***************************************
How cool is that?

 

me again...

the link was also to show your list
*******************************
Bob says………

The Arminian principle of
-God first acting to supernaturally bring salvation to all,
- then calling for man to respond and receive,
- then subsequently
providing that those who act and receive - shall then have the right to become children of god following their act of receiving.

And though He comes as light into the World (the same WORLD that He made) and "Enlightens every man" - yet it is not to force the will - but to compell "every one of mankind" to action, as it convicts and draws mankind to choose light - to choose to OPEN the door.
**********************************************
James says...

Now add this to your list Bob. The world did not receive Him. The world was in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend. This is what is in the passage…some how you over looked it. Where do you place this in you lineup? Did you forget this part?

Bob..i do not over look this part…or the standing offer. You want to push past the darkness…and throw out “not by mans will”….and do away with “other things" that do not fit your doctrine.
********************************
cool huh?

 

This is "interesting" though on a bit of a different subject.

I am arguing against the JW notion of inserting the article "A" into John 1 to try and get around the fact that John 1 is not using it and is making a good case for the Trinity - a particularly good case for God the Son.

I show that they are being inconsistent to try to stick the article "A" into the text when it "pleases them" or when their doctrinal bias "needs it".

Basically - I am arguing that we should leave the text as it is.

But in that SAME Bob-commentary note I ALSO hit a few Calvinist hot buttons --- which was my main point in bringing it up.

I just did not edit out the arguments I also had in there opposing the JW POV along with the Calvinist POV.

Sorry for the confusion.

In Christ,

Bob

 

John 1 says "He came to HIS OWN and HIS OWN received Him not".

It also says that "He was the light to the World that enlightens EVERY MAN but the WORLD Loved darkness".

--- Lets stick with the idea of "change nothing".


What do you have?

IN Christ,

Bob

 

First of all you again bypass the whole reason of Rom 9 when Paul said "Not ALL Israel is Israel", this refers to individuals Bob. Secondly Rom 2 gives you a problem. God is not partial to anybody. That's the whole point. He will chose whomever He wants. He is not boxed in to the rich,poor, smart, stupid. He is free to choose. That is the point that Paul is making, it is not by HUMAN WILL, or by PATRIARCHAL descendants, but on GOD'S PURPOSE.

You are boxing God in TO BE PARTIAL by qualifying God to except you by your choice. This is what Paul is REJECTING by saying God is not partial. He doesn't look at anything man is or what he does.

Unfortunately you are showing your ignorance of the text. By that I mean the REAL text... the Greek.

Whoever is not in the text AT ALL. You can not base an understanding or exegesis on a word that isn't even in the text! How silly!

The Greek reads as follows, For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that everyone believing into Him should not perish......

Out of God's love He gave His son so WHO should not perish? THE BELIEVING ONES. He gave His so the BELIEVING ONES would not perish. Does everyone believe? No.

 

well bob...if you look back into that tread...you will see you brought this verse up when posted below

******************************
I do not agree that ANY can say "I never had a chance" ... God DRAWs ALL and provides for ALL that saving door. "Behold I stand at the door and knock if ANY ONE hears my voice AND opens I WILL come in"Rev 3

In fact "HE IS The light that coming intot the world enlightens EVERY man" John 1
********************************

i tried to show you that john 1 is not saying all are enlighten...but it says..none come to God....he does not enlighten..every man..he was the light in a dark world.

the only reason to bring this up again in this tread bob.....

you always say other side step...and skip over...well..look what you did.

Now you are changing to..."i'm talking about JWs" you maybe now...but back then you were talking about God "enlightens EVERY man"

I'll drop it now....just showing your shell game you play

 

Good idea bob

I have the full text...
I change not one word..
I drop nothing....

here it is
****************************
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God; 3 all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came for testimony, to bear witness to the light, that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness to the light. 9 The true light that enlightens every man was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world knew him not. 11 He came to his own home, and his own people received him not. 12 But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God; 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
*******************************

 

nor of the will of man, but of God.


nough said...

 

As "informative" as that response is - the question remains and the "Details" pointed out in that post of mine "remain" to be answered.

The text SHOWS God "enightens EVERY MAN" and it SHOWS that He is even working to minister to those that "Received Him not" AND He shows that among them are the CHOSEN "His OWN".

Is it time to notice "The details" yet?

Or still have more shell-gaming-for-Calvinism left?

In Christ,

Bob

 

Actually -- you might want to "see the details" of the will of God if you really have interest in that.

"For God is NOT willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance" 2Peter 3:8.

This demonstrates the Rom 2:11 "impartial" nature of God toward mankind when it comes to salvation.

For God so LOVED the WORLD that HE GAVE HIS ONLY begotten Son - that WHOEVER believes in Him SHOULD NOT PERISH". John 3:16

God SO loved the world that - "HE is NOT WILLING for ANY to perish but for ALL to come to repentance" 2Peter 3:8 - and so He extends THIS LIFE

God SO LOVED the World that "HE CALLS ALL MEN everywhere to REPENT" Acts 17:30

God so LOVED the World that "HE died for OUR SINS and NOT for our sins ONLY but for those of the WHOLE WORLD" 1John 2:2

God so Loved the World that God our Savior, 4 desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Tim 2:3

 

Actually -- you might want to "see the details" of the will of God if you really have interest in that.

"For God is NOT willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance" 2Peter 3:8.

This demonstrates the Rom 2:11 "impartial" nature of God toward mankind when it comes to salvation.

For God so LOVED the WORLD that HE GAVE HIS ONLY begotten Son - that WHOEVER believes in Him SHOULD NOT PERISH". John 3:16

God SO loved the world that - "HE is NOT WILLING for ANY to perish but for ALL to come to repentance" 2Peter 3:8 - and so He extends THIS LIFE

God SO LOVED the World that "HE CALLS ALL MEN everywhere to REPENT" Acts 17:30

God so LOVED the World that "HE died for OUR SINS and NOT for our sins ONLY but for those of the WHOLE WORLD" 1John 2:2

God so Loved the World that God our Savior, 4 desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Tim 2:3 </font>[/QUOTE] Amen Bob! It's sad to read the above and still have a view that God is a God of hate and damnation.

 

Actually -- you might want to "see the details" of the will of God if you really have interest in that.

"For God is NOT willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance" 2Peter 3:8.

This demonstrates the Rom 2:11 "impartial" nature of God toward mankind when it comes to salvation.

For God so LOVED the WORLD that HE GAVE HIS ONLY begotten Son - that WHOEVER believes in Him SHOULD NOT PERISH". John 3:16

God SO loved the world that - "HE is NOT WILLING for ANY to perish but for ALL to come to repentance" 2Peter 3:8 - and so He extends THIS LIFE

God SO LOVED the World that "HE CALLS ALL MEN everywhere to REPENT" Acts 17:30

God so LOVED the World that "HE died for OUR SINS and NOT for our sins ONLY but for those of the WHOLE WORLD" 1John 2:2

God so Loved the World that God our Savior, 4 desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Tim 2:3 </font>[/QUOTE] Amen Bob! It's sad to read the above and still have a view that God is a God of hate and damnation. </font>[/QUOTE]All very good verse webdog. All speak of Gods Love. I agree with all.


Now lets review the tread. Here comes the swich AGAIN. Bob brought in john 1 claiming it supported mans enlightment. From then on the post have been showing john 1 is saying man was in the dark..and when the light came (christ)..they were still in the dark. ,,,even though as bob says..the standing offer of the light still stands.

what do you think john 1 says?

 

Actually -- you might want to "see the details" of the will of God if you really have interest in that.

"For God is NOT willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance" 2Peter 3:8.

This demonstrates the Rom 2:11 "impartial" nature of God toward mankind when it comes to salvation.

For God so LOVED the WORLD that HE GAVE HIS ONLY begotten Son - that WHOEVER believes in Him SHOULD NOT PERISH". John 3:16

God SO loved the world that - "HE is NOT WILLING for ANY to perish but for ALL to come to repentance" 2Peter 3:8 - and so He extends THIS LIFE

God SO LOVED the World that "HE CALLS ALL MEN everywhere to REPENT" Acts 17:30

God so LOVED the World that "HE died for OUR SINS and NOT for our sins ONLY but for those of the WHOLE WORLD" 1John 2:2

God so Loved the World that God our Savior, 4 desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Tim 2:3 </font>[/QUOTE]good verses Bob...

how about the text in john 1?

oh yes..you told us to forget that one...not to force it will.

so now we go to any passage and pick the "will" that fits us best.

now how about those details?

 

Which part?

 

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God; 3 all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
****** above other than the fact is is telling us that Christ is God...

it is telling us Christ came into the world which was dark...and the world can find the only light and or life..in Christ. I think we both will agree


6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came for testimony, to bear witness to the light, that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness to the light.
***** 6-8 is telling us about John the baptist..testimony is such

i think we agree

From this point on..how do we read the rest of the text..as we apply the 1st part?
*************************************

9 The true light that enlightens every man was coming into the world.
******* enlightens. The light..that is Christ from the above text. i think we agree. what does that enlightens mean?

1) Does it mean all now can be saved because the light has now come?
2) Does it mean all will be saved, for they are now enlightened?
3) Does it mean once man was bind from sins but now that the light came...he now is enlighten to see?
4) something else...


10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world knew him not.
*****going with what you pick in verse 9...what does 10 mean? OR do you think this is a new thought? if it is a new thought..why do you think so?


11 He came to his own home, and his own people received him not.
***** going by verse 9 what how does this apply to the context...other then its the jews?
is this part of john the baptist testimony?

12 But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God;
****
1)is this a offer to come to God?
2)a statement that some did come
3)or part of john the baptist testimony?
4)...something else


13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
******* now...how does this one verse fit in your doctrine above? mainly...not the will of man?

 

On the contrary --

Is "now" a good time to notice "all the details" in those first 12 verses?

Global context: "The LIGHT OF MEN" unqualified (as in – “mankind”).

The intended purpose is that ALL should believe – unqualified ALL, no limit!

"Light shines in DARKNESS" - the entire world is said to be in darkness not just the jews.
"so that ALL might believe through Him" Unqualified - the message of John in the Gospels has gone to all the WORLD.

In vs 9 the “light comes into the World” – the same “World” that is MADE by Christ in vs 10.

This is the act of an impartial God who "so loved the world" that He gives His Son to a race of depraved humans to be "The Savior of the World" 1John 4:14.

It is only because of God's WILL that any are saved. Man had not ability to "Will himself" a Savior.

So our Impartial God (Rom 2:11) sends Christ our Lord and Savior to be the Atoning Sacrifice for "Our Sins" and NOT for "Our sins only but for the sins of the Whole World" 1John 2:2

For "God is not WILLING THAT ANY should perish" 2Peter 3.

Salvation is only by the "Will of God".

In vs 12 we see that the action of those who received Christ is what determines the result and in the Greek the reception is in the "active voice". It does not state that some other action was taken forcing them to be children of God and the ones thus “Changed” simply “awoke to notice the fact” that they were already in “union with Christ” some time later. (Analytical Greek NT - "indicative mood" and "active voice" used for receive in John 1:12)

(As for the “a god” arguments of some --
Notice "children of A God" just does not work here.
Notice "Nor of the will of man, but of A God" is not workable. No justification for such abuse of the text.)

The WILL of God – is that “none-should perish”. (If we use scripture to define that will.)

(But some like to see in John 1 the opportunity to for a bit of eisegesis. The chance to “Read INTO the text” the idea that God was NOT WILLING for the MANY to come to repentance and be saved – rather those born of the “will of God” are ALL that God is “willing” to save.)

Born of blood - referring to natural birth.

God's part: Sending His Son as light into the world - the same world that was made through him - (global unqualified non-restrictive context.)
not only into the world but also to his own (those he chose for himself) -

Man's part - history (those chosen as "his own" failed - they did not receive HIM).
- standing offer - BUT To as many as RECEIVED Him (by contrast to HIS CHOSEN "OWN" - who did NOT receive Him)

God's part - to them he gave the right to become children of God.

God's part - to cause those that receive him to be born again.

Calvinism "hope" of course is to ignore the sequence - to lift God's part out - and delete man's part so that NO sequence appears - JUST God causing man to be born again - arbitrarily selecting prior to any reference of man receiving anything. Calvinism's attempt to ignore the complete text fails.

The Arminian principle of
-God first acting to supernaturally bring salvation to all,
- then calling for man to respond and receive,
- then subsequently
providing that those who act and receive - shall then have the right to become children of god following their act of receiving.

And though He comes as light into the World (the same WORLD that He made) and "Enlightens every man" - yet it is not to force the will - but to compel "every one of mankind" to action, as it convicts and draws mankind to choose light - to choose to OPEN the door.

IN the CONTEXT of God acting on man's behalf - the sinner can and often does STILL choose darkness.

Nevertheless - as John points out in Rev 3 – "Behold I stand at the door and knock"!!

[/quote]

In Christ,

Bob

 

Lets see....

i asked for the 3rd time...how about "not by mans will"

this is your long reply...lets look and see if you adress the ONE detail i asked for...

On the contrary --

Is "now" a good time to notice "all the details" in those first 12 verses?

*******we talked about verse 12 3 times. how about what i asked..."nor by the will of man"

Global context: "The LIGHT OF MEN" unqualified (as in – “mankind”).
***************************
Nope...not here bob..."nor by the will of man"


The intended purpose is that ALL should believe – unqualified ALL, no limit!
*************************
good...now how about..."nor by the will of man"


"Light shines in DARKNESS" - the entire world is said to be in darkness not just the jews.
"so that ALL might believe through Him" Unqualified - the message of John in the Gospels has gone to all the WORLD.
*******************
NOPE...nothing here about "nor by the will of man"

In vs 9 the “light comes into the World” – the same “World” that is MADE by Christ in vs 10.

******************
aaaw man...and i thought we were getting close.

now try to read this line..."nor by the will of man"


This is the act of an impartial God who "so loved the world" that He gives His Son to a race of depraved humans to be "The Savior of the World" 1John 4:14.
************
what is?? aaaw wait..your not talking about "nor by the will of man" are you?


It is only because of God's WILL that any are saved. Man had not ability to "Will himself" a Savior.
*******************

this is real close...keep trying but good start...now what is next?


So our Impartial God (Rom 2:11) sends Christ our Lord and Savior to be the Atoning Sacrifice for "Our Sins" and NOT for "Our sins only but for the sins of the Whole World" 1John 2:2
********************

rom 2?..1 john 2? how about john 1 :13?? that is what i asked about..how about THOSE details


For "God is not WILLING THAT ANY should perish" 2Peter 3.
**************

good verse...not a answer

Salvation is only by the "Will of God".
****************
Gods will...good...and so its not by whos will? come on ...you can say it...it really will not hurt...come on bob


In vs 12 we see that the action of those who received Christ is what determines the result and in the Greek the reception is in the "active voice". It does not state that some other action was taken forcing them to be children of God and the ones thus “Changed” simply “awoke to notice the fact” that they were already in “union with Christ” some time later. (Analytical Greek NT - "indicative mood" and "active voice" used for receive in John 1:12)
*******************
yes ....this is right before the verse..now read 13


(As for the “a god” arguments of some --
Notice "children of A God" just does not work here.
Notice "Nor of the will of man, but of A God" is not workable. No justification for such abuse of the text.)
********************
ok...there is the pharse....

there look at it.

you posted these very words before.
again..you say not workable and you added arguments of some. you said before you were talking about JWs. but what does "nor by the will of man" mean??


The WILL of God – is that “none-should perish”. (If we use scripture to define that will.)
************
wait wait wait...bob..lets go back to that pharse...come on now


(But some like to see in John 1 the opportunity to for a bit of eisegesis. The chance to “Read INTO the text” the idea that God was NOT WILLING for the MANY to come to repentance and be saved – rather those born of the “will of God” are ALL that God is “willing” to save.)
****************
read into? "nor by the will of man" is reading into?...wait...you said this before.


Born of blood - referring to natural birth.

God's part: Sending His Son as light into the world - the same world that was made through him - (global unqualified non-restrictive context.)
not only into the world but also to his own (those he chose for himself) -

Man's part - history (those chosen as "his own" failed - they did not receive HIM).
- standing offer - BUT To as many as RECEIVED Him (by contrast to HIS CHOSEN "OWN" - who did NOT receive Him)

God's part - to them he gave the right to become children of God.

God's part - to cause those that receive him to be born again.

Calvinism "hope" of course is to ignore the sequence - to lift God's part out - and delete man's part so that NO sequence appears - JUST God causing man to be born again - arbitrarily selecting prior to any reference of man receiving anything. Calvinism's attempt to ignore the complete text fails.

The Arminian principle of
-God first acting to supernaturally bring salvation to all,
- then calling for man to respond and receive,
- then subsequently
providing that those who act and receive - shall then have the right to become children of god following their act of receiving.

And though He comes as light into the World (the same WORLD that He made) and "Enlightens every man" - yet it is not to force the will - but to compel "every one of mankind" to action, as it convicts and draws mankind to choose light - to choose to OPEN the door.

IN the CONTEXT of God acting on man's behalf - the sinner can and often does STILL choose darkness.

Nevertheless - as John points out in Rev 3 – "Behold I stand at the door and knock"!!

</font>[/QUOTE]In Christ,

Bob [/QUOTE]


i just read the rest of you post. this is the same old stuff you posted before. I thought i had read this before...and there is nothing new. do you just have a file you keep posting based on the verse??

SAME WORDS. word for word. you did add...some say to that one line.

bob..what you posted before was wrong...its wrong still. i have shown and i dare say others have shown this does not work. if you need to debate at least take the time to type new thoughts.

as it stands now...this is pointless now.

 

But your nonsensical response to the DETAILS of John 1 is...

With those kinds of non-response quips - how do you expect to review even one single "detail" listed??

It is a confusing approach to scripture that you are using.

In Christ,

Bob