Several things...
1. A transliteration and a translation are two different things. A translation is κόσμος = world; a transliteration is κόσμος = kosmos.
2. As you will remember I made this argument: "I would suggest that the word κόσμος in John 3:16 refers to all of the created order that is groaning under the curse of sin (Romans 8:18-25), which includes mankind. Of course a general reference to mankind does not mean all without exception because in John 3:16, those who do not perish are the ones who are believing." (post #7 in this thread)
Having said that, just because a word is used in the New Testament one way at one time does not mean it must be understood that way every time. In English, a good example of this would be "Run." Is it used as a noun or a verb? Is it an imperative? Fortunately, Greek answers those questions by the form of the word. However, meaning is not always assigned by the form, and here "Run" would be similar. Do I mean "the car doesn't run" or do I mean "I'm going for a run." Perhaps I mean "we need to score one more run to win the game" or perhaps I'm intending to command my child to flee an approaching car. On the other hand, I might just mean to say "we were late because my wife got a run in her stocking and had to change them." And so it is with Greek words, it is the context and construction that matters as much or more than the lexical definition.
3. To think yourself right because "Mankind is a subset of the universe" is troubling. Ants are a subset of the universe as are angels and demons. Does the usage extend to them too? Did Jesus die to save the ants?
4. You are welcome and free to persist in your ignorance.
Blessings,
The Archangel
"For God SO LOVES the HUMAN RACE..."
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Acts2.21, Jun 17, 2019.
Page 3 of 9
-
The Archangel Well-Known Member
-
The reason they would not be saved is they do not belueve in Christ. All judgement is given to Christ.
Again...why would they be saved if Christ were to have "paid" for the sin of mankind (the human race in toto). -
Unholy = κοινός, ή, όν (s. the numerous cognates that follow this entry; Hes.+) prim. ‘common’ (opp. ἴδιος)
① pert. to being of mutual interest or shared collectively, communal, common (so gener. Gk. lit., also LXX; EpArist, Philo, Joseph., SibOr).
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 551). Chicago: University of Chicago Press. -
Are you a Baptist or a Presbyterian?
He was confused about something as simplistic as baptism then perhaps you should reconsider his other theories.
If you have children have you sprinkled them? -
This has absolutely nothing to do with your assumption that Christ "paying" for the sin of mankind in toto equates to universal salvation. The claim is a bit silly as by your own admission those who hold to universal Atonement are not claiming universal salvation.
So again, why do you think that Jesus "paying the price" to rederm all mankind in toto equates to universal salvation? -
BTW, none of your off the shelf arguments are applicable. -
-
I asked why you thought that Christ dying for the sin of mankind in toto equated to universal salvation.
Instead of explaining you offered several more unfounded assertions. You say "If this" "then that" but thus far have not even tried to explain how you get from point A to point B.
All judgment (per Scripture) is given the Son because of the Cross (more percisely because of Christ's faithfulness).
It seems you are holding only half a gospel.
Are you viewing the Cross as some sort of business transaction? If so, then perhaps poor theology is the reason you feel Christ "paying the price" for mankind (in toto) too great a doctrine to believe. -
Christ was/is a propitiation for the sin of the world, the lamb which taketh away the sin of the world.
We then are His via purchase with His blood to then do with as He pleases as he possesses not only the keys to His kingdom but the keys to hell and death as well.
Revelation 1 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
What a wonderful confidence He gives us in exchange for the fear of death. -
Reformed1689 Well-Known Member
If you have to focus on the man John Calvin we know you have lost the argument. -
-
Reformed1689 Well-Known Member
-
There was a time when I lived in a state of rejecting Christ (Paul says this was true of everyone). It is a sin (perhaps the root of all sin) for which I am forgiven.
But why the deflection? -
2 Peter 2:1-2? If Christ did not provide the means of salvation when He "bought" the denier, what did He buy? No answer will be forthcoming, -
Reformed1689 Well-Known Member
-
-
-
-
Again what is the argument?
red herring; plural noun: red herrings
- 1.
a dried smoked herring, which is turned red by the smoke.
synonyms: bluff, blind, ruse, feint, deception, subterfuge, hoax, trick, ploy, device, wile, sham, pretense, artifice, cover, smokescreen, distraction, expedient, contrivance, machination; More
informal dodge, put-on, put-up job - "it's more of a red herring than a legitimate plot element"
- 2.
something, especially a clue, that is or is intended to be misleading or distracting.
"the book is fast-paced, exciting, and full of red herrings"
Why not just drop the name since two calvinist can rarely do justice to him and disagree anyway.
Are you infralapsarian or supralapsarian?
Again he was wrong about baptism and its meaning which is the first reason to not trust anything else he teaches. - 1.
-
It is a fallacy. You say "IF Christ died for all sin AND all are not saved THEN Christ did not die fir sin."
In a way you are correct because Christ died for man, NOT sin. But you are just making unsubstantiated and unconnected assumptions.
If Christ died for sin and all are not saved then I am at Disneyworld. You can't just say stuff and if it sounds good treat it as fact.
Page 3 of 9