Forfeiting Salvation versus Losing Salvation - What is the difference?

Why deal in conjectures? When one is born again the Holy Spirit comes and dwells within. He just doesn't stay for a visit and then pops out again, and says too-da-loo, I'll be on my way now.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

One who is born again is permanently indwelt by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit from the day he is saved begins a work of change in his life. He is a new creature. To say that the Holy Spirit will lead into apostasy is a heretical belief IMO, and displays a lack of understanding in the doctrine of salvation.

 

Brother Bob writes:
"Well if you believe in losing your Salvation, then you could accept Arminius theory or John Wesley's. You could forfeit something after you have it, but I don't believe you can forfeit your Salvation. So the only faith you could forfeit, as I believe, would be the "measure of faith", Unless you believe in a fall."

drfuss: Arminius did not believe a Christian could lose his salvation, only that a Christian could forfeit his salvation. There is a big difference.

Part of this misunderstanding came from Wesley putting out a monthly magazine called the Wesleyan Arminian which indicated a Christain could lose his salvation. Over the years, the OSAS Christians came to believe that Wesley's views represented all non-OSAS Christains including Arminius.

 

The problem I see with that is the definition of forfeiting is to lose something.

Main Entry: 2forfeit
Function: transitive verb
1 : to lose or lose the right to especially by some error, offense, or crime
2 : to subject to confiscation as a forfeit; also : [SIZE=-1]ABANDON[/SIZE], [SIZE=-1]GIVE UP[/SIZE]

It seems there is really no difference between the two?

 

That is what I said in my original post basically. There is no difference between forfeit and lose. They are one in the same, but the "real" question lies in the meaning of salvation. I going to guess CC that you believe the "salvation" is eternal salvation, so that one can stop believing and give up their eternal salvation. Is that correct?

 

If you recieve a gift, keep it awhile, then decide to give it back, you have forfeited the gift.

If you recieve a gift, keep it awhile, then you lose it (don't know where it is or if you still have it), you have lost the gift. You can get it again by finding it.

Arminius believed a Christian could forfeit his salvation by deciding to stop trusting in Christ.

Wesley believed a Christian could lose his salvation by not forgiving others or not asking forgiveness for known sins or not being remorseful for know sins. Such a Christian can again have his salvation by repenting of his unforgiveness and/or asking forgiveness and being remorseful for his known sins.

Forfeiting salvation involves only a decision.

Losing salvation can involve not forgiving others or asking forgiveness and not being remorseful for known sins.

Sounds like two very different things to me.

 

Amy G:

:applause: Excellent observations and insights!

JDale

PS -- the Cumberland Plateau is such a beautiful place to live...

 

This is simply an inaccurate allegory. Having played baseball in my [distant] past, I've been in [and watched] games where teams have played for 5 or 6 innings and then "forfeited" the game. For any number of reasons, though they started the game, they "turned away" or "turned back," they stopped "playing."

Incidentally, I Peter 1:5 has an often overlooked phrase on which the entire meaning of the passage hangs: "Who are kept by the power of God THROUGH FAITH unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time..."

Whose faith? Faith just to be born again, or CONTINUING in faith? Saying it another way -- was Habakkuk accurate? How about Paul (who said this a few times..." "The just shall LIVE BY FAITH..."

JDale

 

DrFuss:

I knew Dr. Ashby, who took the RA view best represented by Arminius. The editor of that book, Matt Pinson, is also an acquaintance of mine -- and is RA. This was an excellent book to point out the differences in these two views...

JDale

 

DHK:

Be extraordinarily careful at slinging around the "heresy" label my brother. You are gonna be stuck with many of us in eternity.

Nowhere do Arminians of ANY persuasion contend -- as you say -- that the Holy SPirit "lead into apostasy." That is a gross misrepresentation of our view, and is quite contrary to Scripture.

The Bible clearly teaches that the HS leads us into ALL truth -- but there are SOME who FAIL to follow. That is not a failure of God, that is a failure of the follower -- if they cease to follow in faith, they APOSTASIZE -- that is ti say, they "fall way."

JDale

 

I stand corrected. I tried to correct it in the next post but guess you didn't see it.

Our faith in Christ Jesus.

I am not one who believes Christians can commit any sin the world commits. If you are kept by the Power of God, then that is the strongest power I know of.

 

I'm not sure I understand Bro Bob -- are you saying that Christians cannot sin? Or, are you saying that the sins Christians commit are somehow different in kind from the sins of those lost in the world?

If so -- are you saying Christians are incapable of, say, commiting adultery? And, if they DO commit adultuery, does that mean they were never really saved?

Please, explain...This doesn't make sense to me...?

JDale

 

Based on this statement you are advocating a man-based, works-based salvation and that is directly opposed to Scripture.

So in order to have a conversation on losing/forfeiting salvation we must be able to be on the same page as to eternal salvation. Eternal salvation is based on the finished work of Christ alone. It has nothing to do with mankind continuing to believe. Eternal salvation, according to Scripture, is a one-time event, not a lifetime process.

 

Well all you have talked about is a physical anecdote and the beliefs of two men. So based on that I guess it could sound like two very different things to you.

 

They were either never saved or if they have tasted of the good fruits of the Lord, and if they should fall, to renew them unto repentance again is impossible. (Let me clarify that I don't know anyone who went that far, but God does if there are any.)
1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

2Cr 12:9And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

I don't just believe we are saved by Grace through Faith, but that the Grace continues with us, to keep us from such acts as Adultery, homosexuality etc.
I don't believe the children of God walk in darkness, but in the light and have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which leads and guides them.

I believe God would go so far as to take our lives, before He would allow us to walk the life of Whoredom again.

2Tim. 1:
13: Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
14: That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.

 

CC no offense meant at all, but you can "believe" that until the cows come home, but it doesn't make it so. The Bible clearly teaches that we are to believe in the finished works of Christ. If we are to "continue" to believe until death then we are in fact not trusting Christ, but trusting ourself. That's just simply the matter of your statement. You can deny it as you have, but just because you deny it doesn't make the issue go away.

Again Scripture says eternal salvation is a one-time event, not a life long process. And there is simply no way of getting around that.

Well I haven't kept up with the other thread and for times sake please enlighten me as to the Scripture that says eternal salvation is a life long process and then please show me how that is going to coincide with Acts 16:30-31 which says it is a one-time event along with Ephesians 2:8-9.

You are exactly right in that you say there are verses that warn believers. But this is the point that I have been trying to make from the beginning. You are associating these passages with eternal salvation, but contextually these passages have nothing to do with eternal salvation.

That's why I said from the beginning the question doesn't lie in if someone can lose/forfeit their salvation, but the "real" question is what "salvation" can one forfeit or lose.

Well again I look forward to how you are going to rework Acts 16:30-31 and Ephesians 2:8-9, because those two verses alone prove your theory to be incorrect.