"Received" does not warrant one having ability.
It doesn't even present one having the capability or the capacity.
Receive is only determined upon that which is given. One cannot receive what is not given.
Receive is not determined upon one rejecting, for receiving is irregardless of rejecting.
One may reject only that which has already been delivered not that which is in delivery.
In the John 1 passage, "As many as receive Him..." can have the meaning of take, to hold on too, however again, that is determined not upon the ability acquire but upon the acquiring of that which is delivered and not the determination of the delivery.
The receiving of rain given to the unjust is not determined by the ability, capacity, and capability of the unjust.
To make it more personal, you may get rained on, today, whether you have the ability, capacity, and capability to stay dry or not.
"As many as receive (get, take, lay hold on)" the rain today, may be blessed with being wet. There is no implied ability of determination over the rain.
One may suggest that one may avoid the rain by shelter. But that does not prevent the rain, nor the shelter from the wet, and therefore, one in the shelter not being rained upon.
Free Will
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Martindr, Nov 25, 2019.
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However, do not leave out:
9There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
See, it isn't a matter of a lack of light. It is the inability of comprehension and obstinacy concerning the use of the light.
Such inability does not determine the light source, nor the intensity of illumination. -
The poster desires an omniscient God, but not so omniscient as to know who, when, where, ... concerning salvation.
The poster desires an omnipresent God, but not so omnipresent as to know who, when, where, ... sin occurs.
The poster wants an omnipotent God, but not so omnipotent as to be in control.
What kind of God does this poster want?
hmmmm -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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John 3 states that non-believers are condemned already. God is not blamed for their sin. It is in the human condition to be a sinner, and such is not determined upon "free will." For if it were, then the rich man who had kept all the law from his youth would have been redeemed.
The will is free to choose from all that is available and it is capable of choosing. That is one cannot choose what they cannot attain. They may certainly strive, but until the ability to attain is acquired, there is no freedom of the will in actualizing that desire. -
InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
How can the gospel be "the power of God to salvation" if people can not comprehend it? -
God did not give us a free choice to sin. We, as did Adam, die. There was no freedom to choose, for we are in the first Adam, and as such all in that first Adam die.
God did not create us to freely love and freely obey Him. That is not the Scripture presentation.
To present God as having some need unmet is not correct, either. God is not needy, nor has unfulfilled desires and wants.
Therefore, God has no capacity to "want all to be saved."
The only verse that indicates such would be 1 Timothy 2:4 and James 1:20 (which doesn't really use the greek word, but combines the thought with the magistrate). As such, the word is used as one who is laying out their best offer, not one expressing need or desire that the offer be acceptable as a salesman may in presenting an item for sale by agenda for need to fulfill quota, money, ... -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I said nothing about the word "receive". -
Besides, didn't Paul point out in 1 Corinthians:
10For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.11For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, 13which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughtswith spiritual words.
14But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.
The gospel is "the power of God to salvation" but that doesn't present that such is given to be activated by the at best frail and corrupt will of a human.
Faith COMES by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. That is the hearing itself is because of the work of the Word.
Human frail, fallen faith is at best a hope. But there is no assurance, and although there may be some evidence there is not security.
Faith of the believer is defined by Scriptures as the "assurance (concretely covenantally establishment) of things hoped for, and evidence (conviction) of that yet seen." That the confidence believers have is from the assurance of the faith. (Hebrews 10 - if I recall correctly). -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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That is typically stated by some as one having the innate natural ability to freely accept God's offer of salvation.
I should have inquired as to how you were using the phrase.
Perhaps you mean to use the term in connection with God supernaturally lifting a person into a state of which the person may make without influence of evil or good some eternal decision.
Of course you know that such presentation concerning prevenient or preceding grace is not found in the Scriptures.
Perhaps you have some other way of presentation.
Please share. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
Rom 10:15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?”
Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
1. In order to believe one must be sent with the gospel
2. In order to believe one must be presented the gospel (preached to).
3. In order to believe one must hear the gospel.
Then, as it says in John 1:12, we have the right to become the sons of God!
Now with regards to the receiving of Christ, there is nothing in John 1:12 that suggests that there is an inability to believe or receive outside f first being regenerated. The language is not there. In vs. 13 it says that salvation is the sovereign act of God. If God never decided to save man than man, without God, would never be able to be saved. That, however, does not mean that man has a total inability. That is eisegesis and is unnecessary. -
InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I Corinthians is speaking of the deep things of God (v. 10) and the "thoughts of God" (v. 11), not the easy to understand gospel. So when Paul says in verse 14, "the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them", it is these deeper things that Paul is speaking about.
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The teaching of the Trinity is known -
[7] You will be accepted if you do what is right. But if you refuse to do what is right, then watch out! Sin is crouching at the door, eager to control you. But you must subdue it and be its master."
Very clear choice being presented. Right at the beginning of the Bible just after the fall just in case you are into infralapsarianism. The accepting is based on what Cain does. The choice is very clearly his.
Ephesians 1:6 NLT
[6] So we praise God for the glorious grace he has poured out on us who belong to his dear Son.
Did you quote the wrong verse from your pamphlet? Nothing about people not having the ability to make choices here. I think you were trying to go after the following:
Ephesians 1:4 NLT
[4] Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.
God did not choose us to be in Christ - God chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes. See the following passage:
Genesis 6:9 NLT
[9] This is the account of Noah and his family. Noah was a righteous man, the only blameless person living on earth at the time, and he walked in close fellowship with God.
If you did not like the Genesis verse, I’ll try another one.
Deuteronomy 30:15 NLT
[15] "Now listen! Today I am giving you a choice between life and death, between prosperity and disaster.
Choices, choices, choices . . . notice that the verse before this one is quoted by Paul in Romans. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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