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Featured God elects the sinner; the sinner does not elect God

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by KenH, Aug 2, 2022.

  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

    ' "All that the Father giveth Me shall come to Me." We must look at this. The gift of sinners by the Father to Jesus Christ is not that terrible doctrine that the devil represents election to be. It is not that forbidding thing that our unbelieving and proud hearts say it is. It is a merciful, tender, loving doctrine, the only doctrine that opens a door of hope for dead ruined men. Free-will, the election of God by a sinner, that is the most terrible, forbidding, hopeless, hard doctrine that can ever be breathed by any man. There is nothing so merciless as to tell the man who is utterly helpless, absolutely ignorant, and teeming with enmity against God if he will but choose God and love God, then God will choose him and love him. I say there is nothing so merciless, so cruel, so abominable, so untrue in the whole world as that. Just as well go to the grave, dig into it for purity, and call upon the dead to live with your own feeble voice, as to say that. There is as much reason in it too. O but we have here something different. A sovereign God, loving to exercise His indisputable sovereignty with regard to a numberless number of poor sinners, and giving them to His dearly-beloved, only begotten Son and telling Him that they are His; giving them to Him to redeem, honourably redeem, to obey for them the law they broke, to make up, on their behalf, every breach of that law, to bring in for them, by His own infinitely gracious and wondrous obedience, a righteousness that justifies the ungodly that believeth in Jesus; to open a new and living way for them, whereby they might and should approach the Lord God and find mercy in the day of trouble; to redeem them from evil, defend them from sin, against the devil, carry them honourably through the difficulties of their pilgrimage, and bring them at last to heaven. '

    - from a sermon preached by J.K. Popham at Galeed Chapel, Brighton, on June 3, 1923

    The sermon can be found here: Sinners Given and Coming to Christ (truegospel.net)
     
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  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Joh 6:70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”
     
  3. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

    And those that come to the Son do so through faith. All you have to do is look at the context.
    Joh 6:35 And Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
     
  4. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    The Father has given the elect to Christ and the elect then come to Christ. Giving precedes coming.
     
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  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Many are called but only a few are elect. Matthew 22:14. The calling comes before being elect.
     
  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    No. Your scenario makes man the chooser of God, your scenario makes man sovereign over God, the creature over the Creator. The Bible teaches that God chooses the elect.

    Perhaps you misstated what you meant?
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No. God calls more than He elects. Matthew 22:14 is the conclustion of a parable, Matthew 22:2-13. see Revelation 3:5.
     
  8. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    We are to proclaim the gospel(or call) throughout the world, not just to the elect. We don't know who the elect are until God regenerates them and grants them faith and repentance from dead works.
     
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  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You refuse to believe Christ paid for the many, out of which elects a few. Matthew 20:28, Matthew 22:14.
     
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Christ died for His sheep. He stated that quite clearly.

    John 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

    There is no teaching in the Bible that Christ died for the goats. For Christ to have died for someone and that person to not be saved would make Christ dissatisfied. The Bible states quite clearly that Christ will be satisfied.

    Isaiah 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

    That verse also states that Christ bore the iniquities of those who are justified, not of those who will not be justified. He will justify many and the many are the same group for whom He bore their iniquities.
     
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  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    His sheep are the reason, Matthew 20:28, Matthew 22:14. John 10:27.
     
  12. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Only if you openly ignore Ephesians 1:3-9.
     
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  13. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    No one refuses to believe what Christ has done. We just don't believe what you are saying since it isn't what Christ says.
     
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  14. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Christ died for the sheep. The sheep were chosen before the world began.

    Christ did not die for someone only to see that person lost. If one stops and really considers the implications of what one is believing when they state that Christ shed His blood and paid the sin debt of a person who is ultimately lost, one should realize just how preposterous and wrong such a teaching is.
     
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 22:2-14 proves that is not true. Christ paid for the many Matthew 20:28 to save His sheep. And they are the few.
     
  16. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Still do not deal with context do you.
     
  17. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Actually the bible teaches that those that trust in the Son are then chosen by because of their faith.
    God. Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith,
     
  18. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Christ died for His sheep. Period. To say that He died for those who will ultimately be lost is a heinously false teaching.
     
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  19. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I do.
     
  20. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (emphasis mine)
     
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