God is the Author of sin.

Now you're just being silly and contentious about God being the author of confusion. I answered that.

As for getting a correct version, I don't think there is any such thing as a perfect English translation. I recommend you go to the Greek/Hebrew whenever you are unsure if any given translation is accurate or clear. If you don't know Greek or Hebrew and aren't willing to learn, then at least look it up to see if words were added by translators as part of their interpretation of the verse. [Edit: An Interlinear Bible is good for this sort of thing.] You don't always end up with a wrong interpretation when translators add words, but in this case it's pretty clear that "the author of" doesn't belong in the verse.

If you are unwilling to go that far, at least get a variety of English translations and compare them. You will find that some verses differ dramatically because of the different interpretations of the translators. That should at least raise a red flag for you.

Oh, and my name is Nicholas, not Nathan.

 

Hello Russell55, I have not read the whole thread so I might be duplicating something here. There are some passages which seem to indicate that God acts directly in bringing about evil, but normally, and perhaps always, Satan is the agent of evil. The problem arises when we look at the relationship between God and Satan. Can we say that Satan has free course - that God does not control all or some things that Satan does? If Satan can do anything whatsoever without God's tacit approval (permission), then there must be something over which God is not sovereign. But if we recognize that Satan does in fact do the bidding of God, unwittingly accomplishing the very thing that God intends, then it is God, working through an agent, that is the "author" of sin, even though God does not directly touch sin, he nevertheless creates and controls it for His purposes.

For all: Is it true that the axiom "God is not the author of sin" was established by Plato's musings, and theologians have adopted it, willing to compromise with worldly philosophies?

 

I think it has to do with scripture and not worldly philosophies.

James, chapter 1
13: Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15: Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16: Do not err, my beloved brethren.

God is NOT the author of sin.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world

 

I know your name is Nicholas, it was a bit of TV humor. Nathan Petreley can fly... eh... nevermind.

I am happy with my version of the Bible, and it does put the added words in italics so I know they were added. Also, I have some software known as "SwordSearcher" which allows me to look at the Greek/Hebrew. So, there is really no problem here.

I knew, before I posted it, you would explain it away.

God is NOT the author of sin. Sorry you can't accept that.

 

Reading some of the early posts, those showing their righteous indignation obvisously didn't read the material on the link provided.

Cheung is brilliant, and everyone interested in theology, regardless of their view, should read it. If you think he's wrong, make an argument against his theories. Can you do it? Some have. Tim over at Triablog has written quite a bit against him. Tim is brilliant too. I think Cheung is wrong about some things. He's got a big blind spot toward his own fallibility which causes him to go over the line. But he is smart, and biblical, and if you read his stuff, you can't deny it.

 

That's some good verses, Bro Bob. I have to log off now but I'm looking forward to the replies to it. Will check later.

 

I wasn't explaining it away, I was correcting your question because your question comes from an interpretation. It doesn't come from the original text. Now, if you ask me the simple question, "does God create confusion?" I would have to say yes, absolutely.

If you are asking me if God is a God of confusion/disorder, or if God is a disorderly God (which is what your verse quote addresses), I would have to say "no".

 

Unbiblical Logic

Somebdoy respond please.

By the way, here is what the SCRIPTURE says all about the "fancy pants" learning of "God being the Author of Sin" and Calvinism = Augustinianism = Platonic thought
1:17
For Christ sent me not to baptize (read post above), but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: <-----Logical Predestinationsim
1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 1:31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

you guys are a bunch of Greeks! and Catholics! Plato = Augustine = Calvin

I do not advocate Greek Fatlalism and humanism (Augustinian Roman Catholicms and Protestantism, Islam) in the guise of Chrisitanity, nor anything that Calvin or Arminus said.

Just read the Bible! Plato did says that God is the author of sin, and that everything is deterministic. = Augustine = Calvin

Anyway who cares what Plato said, there is a good chance he is in Hell!

 

I don't disagree with this in any substantial way, although I would never call that being the "author of sin" and I would never say God creates sin. The reason I wouldn't use the term "author of sin" to describe it is because as most often defined, being the author of sin means that God is the "doer of the evil deed", to quote Jonathan Edwards again. Once you allow that God is working through other agents by means of his permission, who do things for their own motives and from their own desires, then you've moved out of the realm of "author of sin" as most commonly defined. As for the idea that God creates sin, I don't think sin is something that is created. It's the absense of righteousness. It's not something, but lack of something.

Don't know. But I think where the phrase came from is irrelevant. Personally, I think it is a meaningless phrase, because people use it without having a good idea what they mean by it.

 

I have to pick this bone.

God most certainly does cause evil.

This thread is not about evil, it is about sin.

The two are not necessarily the same.

Evil, in this sense, meaning calamitous acts, such as natural disasters and such.

In fact, the bible blatantly tells us in Isaiah 45:7 that God causes evil.

God certainly creates evil, as when he caused plagues to fall on Egypt, yet He does not and can not create sin.

Man created sin.

 

somebody respond

Somebody respond

 

Humblesmith. What happened to the Land of free speech I wonder? Taking a leaf out of Islam's books are you? I do hope you're not one of those up in arms about God being taken out of public life in the US. I say the same to you as I would a Catholic or Muslim, if God don't like it He knows what to do. Salem made that error?

My forefathers fought for what we have and I will to to keep it. Many of our countrymen have died and are still dying now to eradicate fascism and to keep our liberties liberties. You remember that next time you see the American flag burning because a Dutchman drew caricatures of Islam's false prophet.

God even manages to be Heretic of Heretics! He never ceases to amaze me cause He says He does. Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. :)

And how you can ask the moderators to kick what you think savage wolves onto the poor helpless public is beyond me completely. At least you think you are equipped with the latest gear for the amour of God.

john. :)

 

This is to stop anyone becoming dictator it does not conflict with God's Sovereignty but is for peace and order within the Church. Any words from a prophet are to be measured by the other prophets Blammo. We will have no jumped up Pope.

You know someone that performs righteous acts? I stay away from such delusion. :)

Blammo. Is God the author of confusion?

He is. He is also the God of order and peace and if we use His word aright our Churches will be havens not the Muppet Show. :)

2 Thess 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 13 But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. 16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, 17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

One only needs to pray for good and one will receive it and one only needs to realise that God needs to put the thought in your head first to know Him.

john.

 

Ask the administrators, they set the rules for this site. It's not gov't owned. They have every right to ban those who spread heresy like this...

Moderators....you out there?

 

But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness...

Meant to trip blind men over and meant to be ridiculous to those who are wise in their own eyes. Not very helpful is He? :) Why does God still blame us, Christlifter, for who resists His will. Please answer this. Who can open the eyes of a man born blind? Why does He trip em up then? A jest? I wonder that's all.

But He did choose us didn't He? :) Then Augustine and Calvin thought that as well.

john.

 

OK...i'll reply

Your wrong. You are mad and ready to hang a person, or anybody for that matter, for they do not believe as you.

If you had a match now, would you burn the 1st Calvinist you saw? Shame Shame

 

This is a doctrine held my many Baptist. The MODs will not close this down...only because you do not agree.


You don't see them close down a thread, when some act as if God is a helpless old man. I see this all the time.....


It seems like we can address this...without a big fight. So...everyone put down your hanging ropes....and put down your matches...and lets talk like grown ups here.

This was not all addess to you webdog. I just got stated..and could not stop typing. :)

 

What is meant by the word Author?

Sin is not matter. Sin takes up no space. Sin does not have a life span.

So...what is meant when someone says...God is the Author of sin?

 

Yes russell but the Proverb dismisses man's thoughts and what He wants to do and the man speaks and does as God determines.
PR 16:9 In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.
PR 16:1 To man belong the plans of the heart, but from the LORD comes the reply of the tongue.

Rom 11:32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience...
The lack is caused by God and He tells us that explicitly.

john.

 

You need a new argument Bro. James. JN 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Rom 11:32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience...

john.