Luke often groups his writing by topic rather than by chronology.
God wants all men to be saved
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Revmitchell, Jan 2, 2018.
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When The Lord Jesus stood looking over Jerusalem, tears were in His eyes as he reflected of how often God had sent servants urging the people to repent, and how meaning those servants had been treated.
Certainly, God "desires" all men to be saved.
However, because of the rebelliousness and love of darkness rather then light condition of the humanity, then the only salvation is by God purposely choosing those in whom he wills the change of the heart, giving ears that hear so that true faith is implanted by His word, and cause by the work of the Holy Spirit that person to awaken to the claims of Christ, and from that changed heart repent and confess. -
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Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member
"That betrayeth (tou paradidontos). Present active participle, actually engaged in doing it. The hand of Judas was resting on the table at the moment. It should be noted that Luke narrates the institution of the Lord's Supper before the exposure of Judas as the traitor while Mark and Matthew reverse this order." -
Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member
Here we have the Greek word, "ἐκλέγω" (to pick out for oneself, choose), which is used to include Judas. This word is also used in Luke 6:13, "And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose (ἐκλέγω) twelve, whom also he named apostles". And, John 15:16, "You have not chosen (ἐκλέγω) me, but I have chosen (ἐκλέγω) you, and ordained you, that you should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever you shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it to you"
God also "chose" Judas, as He did the other 11, yet we know that he is not in heaven! -
Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Yet you say He is willing to have mercy on all, and not willing to harden any?
Don't think you're reading that verse quite right. -
The choosing one out of many (the contextual term definition) does not mean that He choose them for salvation, but for service. (validated by John 15:16)
Remember Nebuchadnezzer? God called him "my servant."
Remember the fish in the book of Jonah?
God chooses and selects for service from all that He creates regardless of the estate of salvation.
That He has bestowed on to some eternal life is His right. That He has not bestowed on some eternal life is His choice.
It isn't that God has chosen some for life and some for death!
ALL are destined to the Lake of Fire. God did not choose that destiny, humankind did by rebelliousness and rejection of light.
From all those destined to the that eternity, God chose some at His pleasure and His purpose to be saved.
You and I may not like His selection, we may disagree about who is selected, we may argue between ourselves about the particulars of how that selection is carried out, but DO NOT ever think that we have the right to question God. The vessels of dishonor and the vessels of honor are both made by Him for His purpose.
I get that impression by some of the responses on this thread that folks are attempting to argue with God and try to scheme some authority away from Him in puffing up some human assigned attribute that just is not Scriptural. -
Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member
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"But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth" (ESV, NIV, ISV, etc) -
Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member
the "vessels of dishonor and the vessels of honor" are for service and not as some misuse this verse, to show evidence for "election", which I have read in some places! -
But, in casual conversation, I rarely make the distinction a mater of the discussion because it can lead to distraction from the message of salvation which is that work of reconciliation as Paul mentions is the ministry. -
Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
What difference to you see it making? The Thessalonian Christians are still chosen for salvation, and if you want election (Gk. eklego) from eternity you can go to Ephesians 1:4 or Titus 1:1-2. -
Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member
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Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
What that verse doesn't say is that he hardens some so that they never can receive the gospel. Elsewhere it says He hardens those who perceive God through general revelation and reject Him are given a special hardening by God. Romans 1:24. So I see it as you who are not reading it right. -
Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member
"As touching the gospel, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake. For the gifts and the calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in time past were disobedient to God, but now have obtained mercy by their disobedience, even so have these also now been disobedient, that by the mercy shewn to you they also may now obtain mercy. For God hath shut up all unto disobedience, that He might have mercy upon all."
Here Paul is speaking of the relation of the Gentiles to the Jews, who were still in a sense, "the elect" of God. He then goes on to show that though they (like the Gentiles) were disobedient to God, yet God is willing to show them "mercy". God had concluded ALL (Jews and Gentiles alike) to "disobedience" (sin), in order that He might have "mercy" to the ALL, that is, "THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE", which is made up of both Jews and Gentiles! -
The death was not by lack or loss of blood, but the determination of the Lord Jesus who willed Himself at the appointed moment to commend His Spirit to the Father. “Finished, completed” was the word. The power over death was transferred to the Christ, who would also have the authority of resurrection to life and hell in the resurrection. Where, before Satan had to be told he could not take a life, such authority, by the virtue of the determined death of the Christ, was ripped from that evil and given into the conquering Savior. Does not He say, “All authority has been given to me,” and in another, “He holds the keys...”.
Now there is much more that is involved, and for brevity I did not place Scriptures in this post that it not become burdensome and tediously tombed. I figured you seem smart enough for me not to have to document what you already know as truthful. -
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