Rom 9:11-23
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )
12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
God's double decree of Predestination, that from all eternity, not based upon anything of His creatures, neither good nor evil, God did detemine that some of His creatures should have everlasting life, and that some should have everlasting damnation on account of their sins.
Prov 16:4
4The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
God made the wicked for the day of evil, that is for their day of destruction to be meted out to each one of them in the day of His wrath and Last Judgment.
Job 21:30
That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.
God's double decree of predestination !
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Jul 1, 2011.
Page 1 of 3
-
-
i am I AM's!!
Willis -
"I believe" the whole intent and purpose of Romans 9 is to Broaden the the scope of salvation, not to narrow it. Paul addressing the pride and misdirection of the Jews...."Now you, if you call yourself a Jew, if you rely on the Law and brag about your relationship to God. (2:17) I think the point being, the Jews had become prideful that they were the "chosen" , they had been granted such a special measure, such as the law and rather than humbling themselves as a nation (people) they became prideful and corrupted that unique calling into regulatory rule keeping.
Romans 2-3 Paul speaks of this highlighting the fact that as good and special as the Jews think that they are, they are in fact no different than the Gentiles, (whom the Jews thought of as dogs, dogs in oriental culture as being filthy creatures).
Despite the fact that the Jews thought more highly of themselves, and to some degree it is understandable, being that they were "entrusted with the very words of God." Paul is establishing that there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile (3:9-18) Being "jewish" gives one no automatic claim on salvation rather as Paul claims (radical to jewish ears)
"A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly....."No a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly, and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the spirit not by the code of law. Such a mans praise is not from men, but from God."
How offensive to the Jews of Paul's day, he is now claiming that the gentiles (dogs) now how every right as the Jews to being justified. (3:29-30)
I believe Romans 9 is now the culmination of Paul being sorrowful that the "ethnic" Jews have rejected the Messiah. Now the Gentiles are granted the privilege to be "chosen" as "not as though God's word had failed".
The problem being that how can God reject his "chosen" ones, the Jews and open the doors of justification to the "gentile dogs". Paul answers that challenge with the simplicity that God is Sovereign and can offer and include anyone he so chooses. Who is it that God chooses to save and justify?
Galatians 3:7-8
"Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. The scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham.
Paul’s burden, then, in Romans 9 is not to narrow the scope of God’s election but to broaden it. He wants to take in all who have faith in Christ Jesus regardless of their ethnicity. Election, then, is first and foremost a corporate notion: God has chosen for Himself a people, a corporate entity, and it is up to us by our response of faith whether or not we choose to be members of that corporate group destined to salvation. -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
So Quantum do you think it all really rests with man to decide, that God sets the table & then waits in anticipation for man to say yes or no? BTW, this is not to put you on the spot or stir argument ...it is an attempt to honestly understand your prospective.
Thanks -
-
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
Thinkingstuff Active Member
-
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
-
Thinkingstuff Active Member
-
Thinkingstuff Active Member
-
-
-
-
Read Job. This world is a war game between God and Satan where God wrote the rules and Satan hasn't caught on yet.
-
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
5._____ Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of his mere free grace and love, without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving him thereunto.
( Ephesians 1:4, 9, 11; Romans 8:30; 2 Timothy 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Romans 9:13, 16; Ephesians 2:5, 12 ) -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
Thinkingstuff Active Member
Page 1 of 3