Exactly.
To try to argue that there was actual time before the Creation in the sense of the linear progression we measure in physics would run afoul of the Kalam argument.
Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female
I would say that to make Creation just an event in "eternal" linear time makes the "at the beginning" statements somewhat meaningless. They would all have to mean "at the beginning of the Creation event," and not really "at the beginning, period."
The prologue of John 1:1 is a powerful statement of the transcendence of the Logos over everything related to the physical universe: In the beginning "was being" the Logos.
God's existence
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by webdog, Jul 10, 2012.
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HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Time is an observance of changes, and even by secular standards, time didn't exist until the "big bang". Without changes to observe, there is no time.
So, time to God, is anything HE wants it to be since He is the one making the changes. That is why one day "is as" a thousand years, and a thousand years "is as" one day. It doesn't matter if a "day" to God is one second or 5,478,221 years, a day is whatever God says it is because He IS God. -
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HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Angels are a separate issue...without going into detail, my view would be that Angels are a facet of the initial creative act as well, which probably had their becoming somewhere between day 1 and day 3.....They were a witness to God's "laying the foundations of the Earth"....(day 3) and they "shouted for joy"....This is often thought to mean we should pre-date their creation prior to or on day 3...(one shouldn't be dogmatic though) but it is probable that they did not pre-date any intial creative decree. -
HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The "Light escaping it's self" statement came about when web dog made the statement that God stepped out side of time. and then someone else said God is light which is true. I was taught that there is nothing out side of time and that time has always existed. Just as God has always existed. Not that time is more powerful than God or even on the same level as God. Time is eternal It's a thing not a person . We cannot see time we can only know of it's passing. There will always be an eternity or there is no such thing. Time and eternity are like a Mobius ban there is no out side, and there is only one side. A mobius ban looks like a number 8 lying down on it's side. It's the symbol for infinity. What this symbol doesn't show clearly is that there is a 1/2 twist in it.
God can move through time if He so wishes but He really has no need to because what ever time you can think of there God is. Nothing escapes God because God is omnipresent. Meaning; "Everywhere at the same time" There is no out side of time because it doesn't exist. There is nothing not even space out side of time. Certainly there is absolutely no reason to ever assume that God moves in or out of time inorder to travel through it. God is already there He doesn‘t need to travel . He is omnipresent.
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HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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HeirofSalvation said: ↑Angels are a separate issue...without going into detail, my view would be that Angels are a facet of the initial creative act as well, which probably had their becoming somewhere between day 1 and day 3.....They were a witness to God's "laying the foundations of the Earth"....(day 3) and they "shouted for joy"....This is often thought to mean we should pre-date their creation prior to or on day 3...(one shouldn't be dogmatic though) but it is probable that they did not pre-date any intial creative decree.Click to expand...
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Therefore, angels could not have been created "before" anything that pertains to "the beginning" whose context is the Creation. -
Let me add something new to chew on. I have often used this exercise to illustrate the eternality of God.
Right where you are I want you to close your eyes and think of nothing. That is right, think of absolutely nothing. I will wait.
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Are you thinking of nothing yet? Hard to do, right? There is a second part of this exercise. Try to think of a time when there was nothing. You cannot do that either. Our minds cannot fathom true "nothing." God created us as finite. We can only comprehend what is revealed to us. God transcends time and space. He existed before creation. That is why we must take Genesis 1:1 by faith; trusting even though we truly cannot comprehend. -
MorseOp said: ↑Let me add something new to chew on. I have often used this exercise to illustrate the eternality of God.
Right where you are I want you to close your eyes and think of nothing. That is right, think of absolutely nothing. I will wait.
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Are you thinking of nothing yet? Hard to do, right? There is a second part of this exercise. Try to think of a time when there was nothing. You cannot do that either. Our minds cannot fathom true "nothing." God created us a finite. We can only comprehend what is revealed to us. God transcends time and space. He existed before creation. That is why we must take Genesis 1:1 by faith; trusting even though we truly cannot comprehend.Click to expand... -
AresMan said: ↑Exactly.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Therefore, angels could not have been created "before" anything that pertains to "the beginning" whose context is the Creation.Click to expand... -
Yeshua1 said: ↑God ALONE existed somewhere before there was anything but him anywhere!Click to expand...
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freeatlast said: ↑You mean that God existed in nothingness?Click to expand...
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Yeshua1 said: ↑No, rather that God was all that was!Click to expand...
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freeatlast said: ↑How do you know?Click to expand...
ONLY God is eternal, for if anything else existed with Him, he would not be God!
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