Haggard faces more accusations

I'm not surprised.

 

What is more unsettling is the church's settlement with the young man.

 

And this is the guy who had the ear of Bush on a weekly basis.

 

Everything turns into Bush with you, doesn't it? OK, we get it you don't like Bush. I'm not all too impressed with him either, but you don't need to try and connect everything to him.

 

Sorry, but you are out of line. Haggard as president of the NAE was on a weekly conference call with Bush. That is a fact. It isn't me trying to connect Bush & Haggard. From HERE.

Best to check facts before shooting off an accusation. I will accept your apology any time.

Ted Haggard
Opening Up the Umbrella Group: At a meeting with President Bush in November 2003, after nearly an hour of jovial Oval Office chat, the Rev. Ted Haggard, 48, got serious. He argued against Bush-imposed steel tariffs on the grounds that free markets foster economic growth, which helps the poor. A month later, the White House dropped the tariffs. Haggard wasn't alone in faulting the policy, and he doesn't claim to be the impetus, but as president of the National Association of Evangelicals, he gets listened to. He represents 30 million conservative Christians spread over 45,000 churches from 52 diverse denominations. Every Monday he participates in the West Wing conference call with evangelical leaders. The group continues to prod the President to campaign aggressively for a federal marriage amendment. "We wanted him to use the force of his office to actively lobby the Congress and Senate, which he did not adequately do," says Haggard. He is also working to broaden his group's agenda. A document issued last fall offered a theological justification for civic activism by U.S. Evangelicals, calling on them to protect the environment, promote global religious and political freedom and human rights, safeguard "wholesome family life," care for the poor and oppose racism. Says Haggard: "With the growth of Evangelicalism worldwide, we have to be involved in political and social action to impact the culture worldwide."

 

You'll be waiting a long time! I don't refute that Haggard spoke to Bush on numerous occasions. You do need to get your facts straight about the weekly conference calls though. Bush wasn't on those weekly conference calls. It was west wing staff on the calls.

Anyway, none of that is my point. My point is that this thread is about Haggard and his sexual immorality. Do you think that Bush has something to do with that? If you do, you are farther gone that I even believed. Haggard is caught up in terrible sin and he needs to repent and turn his life around. The fact (yes I agree it's a fact!) that he and Bush talked frequently has nothing to do with this.

I sure hope that one of your friends or business acquaintances doesn't get caught up in sin, since that would make you somehow guilty as well!

 

I am not surprised. You make a false allegation, then try to wiggle out of it. I don't try to connect everything to Bush as you allege; but this one is a fact.

Where it matters is that Bush was taking counsel from a hypocrite in shaping national policy.

 

We can say the same for every president. Please find a single president that didn't at one time or another take counsel from someone. Yes, I said someone. We are all sinners (have you forgotten that?). Every president has taken counsel from someone who did stupid things. Do you believe that while Bush was taking counsel from Haggard that Bush knew of this sexual immorality? That would be something to talk about.

I'm in total agreement that the company you keep says something about you. In this case, however, I find it very unlikely that Bush knew of Haggard's problems. Do you have any evidence that Bush continued to take counsel from Haggard after his problems were made public? If you do, I'd love to see it. If you don't, then you have no grounds to complain that Bush took counsel from him.

 

==I doubt Bush knew the man was a hypocrite and pervert. Seems to me that Haggard fooled many people and is still fooling some people. President Bush got council from many different people from many different corners. So I don't see this as a major point. In retrospect there were many clues that something was not right with Haggard. However at the time it seems that most people, the vast majority of people in fact, did not catch on to those clues. For example there is a video on Youtube of Haggard questioning male members of his church about a certain aspect of their marriages. Haggard's questions and responses are really disturbing mainly knowing what we know now. However even before his fall his questions/responses should have raised red flags. But they did not. Part of that maybe due to the fleshly/carnal nature of many of the new bread of popular preachers who major in openly talking about such things. Call me old fashion, but I believe there are certain subjects that are off limits in public.

==Personally I am more concerned that thousands of people, and maybe President Bush, were taking spiritual/religious advice from Haggard. That is far more troubling than any political issue Haggard may have influenced. We know he had a spiritual influence on many people and considering what we now know the impact of his hypocrisy and fall could have horrible eternal consequences. I'm sure the vast majority of those people, including President Bush, were innocent victims of a false teacher, a wolf in sheep's clothing. We should be more concerned about their spiritual wellfare than trying to make a political issue out of it.

 

==Bush has nothing to do with this topic at all. It is just that some people can't seem to do anything but find reasons to bash Bush. That's all. As for Haggard, the actual topic of this thread, I believe he was and is a false teacher like those described in 2Peter 2 and Jude. He was and is a dangerous, evil man whose only goal is to regain the spotlight. I'm certain that there are other young men who had relationships with Haggard but who will not come forward. Someone like Haggard does not just do this once, it is a pattern. After all we learned from the story that his relationship with this other young man had been going on for some time. That tells me that Haggard did not just slip or fall in the situation regarding the male prostitute. Haggard was living in sin while he stood behind the holy desk and preached freedom to thousands (while he himself was dead in sin). I tremble at the damage he has done. But that is what false teachers do.

==I don't believe Haggard is interested in true recovery or anything like that. He got caught, he got removed from the ministry, and now he wants back in. The only thing he is sorry about is that he got caught.

==Based on his actions I don't believe he desires repentance at all.

 

When Haggard was first announced as Pres. of the NAE, I told my pastor I was concerned. This was due to Haggard's strong attachments to the NAR movement and one of its leaders, C Peter. Wagner. This group has very bizarre mystical teachings and takes new revelation from their "prophets" and "apostles."

One of the NAR leaders was put out of his post for the same thing as Haggard.

 

The sad thing when a pastor sins (in such a grand fashion as to be removed from the pastorate) is the disappointment of those that looked to him. We should be looking to the Savior, but humans do tend look to other people.

Like Martin, I can't imagine the damage he's done.

 

And you would prefer maybe Barney Frank?

 

So you prefer Barney Frank because you think he's genuine? Puh-leeze.