I appreciate your intent (the level of education needed for good comprehension) but a fifth grade capacity in any language is not enough to proficiently translate a children's book let alone a truly complex document such as the Bible. The guys who attempted this came from a church in Rochester, NY, not far from you.
Has KJVO caused any church splits?
Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by ktn4eg, Aug 16, 2009.
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The reasoning you're using makes all Christians cult members when compared to what the rest of the lost world thinks about Christianity.
I find your referencing to "KJVO" being a "cult" fits into that same line of reasoning. It is derogatory in essence. It is mere speculation. Your view places yourself on a pedastal to judge other Christians. I find you to be in error according to many verses in the Bible. -
Can you explain how to translate a Greek perfect participle intro English such as in 1 Peter 1:4 the word translated "reserved"? Reserved is not an absolutely accurate translation. While it may be the best possible selection it is still not 100% accurate.
In 21:15-17 two different Greek words are translated "love." How does the English word point out the differences in the Greek words? -
WHo is the one separating based on what translation a person uses? -
Harold,
YOU are the one saying "Your not doing things right unless you do them MY way".
I am actually doing the opposite of putting myself on a pedestal. If I were doing that, I would be saying something like "The ESV is the only legitimate translation of the Bible! All the other translations like the KJV, have been influenced by Anglican Bishops, Catholic manuscripts, and Satan himself!"
Sound familiar?
You point to the Bible to support? Where does the Bible say that the KJV is the only accurate version of the scriptures? Funny, since the KJV uses the Masoretic OT, yet Jesus and the Apostles quoted from the Septuagint in the NT: a fact admitted by KJV translators. -
Think on that for a minute or two and see if you can realy continue thinking like this. -
You reject my position and then reject my fellowship. Where have I once rejected you? have I once asked you to leave BB?:saint: -
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gb93433 said: ↑While I have no doubt as to your sincerity and honesty I believe you are sincerely wrong. There are some particular reasons. No translation is perfect. An original document always sits within a particular culture in a particular time and must be interpreted and translated in light of its historical context. Every language has words which cannot be tranlsated and have no meaning in the receptor language while it did in the source language. A great example in Spanish are the words ¿Cóma está?' and ¿Cómo estás? They translate with the same words in English but have very different usages in Spanish.
Can you explain how to translate a Greek perfect participle intro English such as in 1 Peter 1:4 the word translated "reserved"? Reserved is not an absolutely accurate translation. While it may be the best possible selection it is still not 100% accurate.
In 21:15-17 two different Greek words are translated "love." How does the English word point out the differences in the Greek words?Click to expand...
I am with you. I doubt you would see any type of Bible in a SBC church. -
saturneptune said: ↑Yes, we all took different languages in high school and college. So what is your point?Click to expand...
Most people are going to buy an English Bible version of their choice and learn the Word of God. That is as deep as they will ever get, and guess what, the Holy Spirit will guide them and teach them what they need to know and understand.Click to expand...
For those who have taken the languages they now realize the lack they once had. It is much like trying to explain sight to the blind.
While knowing Greek and Hebrew does aid in Bible interpretation and understanding, there are lots of people with Hebrew and Greek language knowledge where basic doctrine never sinks in? Sound familiar?Click to expand...
I doubt you would see any type of Bible in a SBC church.Click to expand... -
As far as leaving, I consider the KJVO movement a cult. by Havensdad
That wasn't very nice when Havensdad implied that all KJVO folks were cultists. It's difficult to judge an entire group based on what one has encountered in some. It would have been better to say that "some come across as cultists", because that would be a true statement. What you consider is not absolutely true and ruined the thread. Did you really think you could make such a statement and no one come to defend their personal convictions? Instead of getting the original question answered we have endure another argument. -
Havensdad said: ↑You point to the Bible to support? Where does the Bible say that the KJV is the only accurate version of the scriptures? Funny, since the KJV uses the Masoretic OT, yet Jesus and the Apostles quoted from the Septuagint in the NT: a fact admitted by KJV translators.Click to expand...
In addition, one might note that in Lk. 4:16-21, Jesus read from the scroll of Isaiah, that was present in the synagogue at Nazareth, where the text He read from (not some text which He may have paraphrased) complies with neither the LXX or Masoretic text, and pronounced what He had read as Scripture!16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:
18 “ The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,[a]
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD.”[b]
20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” (Lk. 4:16-21 - NKJV)Click to expand...1 “The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon Me,
Because the LORD has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, (Is. 61:1-2a - NKJV)Click to expand...
http://www.ccel.org/bible/brenton/Isaiah/61.html
1 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me; he has sent me to preach glad tidings to the poor, to heal the broken in heart, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind; 2 to declare the acceptable year of the Lord, (Is. 61:1-2a, as rendered in the LXX)Click to expand...
Incidentally, here is a link to the LXX where this can also be found.
http://www.studylight.org/isb/bible...on=0&it=kjv&ot=lxx&nt=na&Enter=Perform+Search
The point is, these OT texts of Isaiah are indeed different, even to the third one which Jesus read from. Yet He specifically proclaimed this as Scripture.
Personally, I'm gonna' agree with Jesus. :jesus:
Any others may do as they choose.
Ed -
gb93433;1444494. said:It makes as much sense as having a building built by a non-Christian who has proven himself as a master than a Christian who lacks experience and knowledge.Click to expand...
If you believe that then show how God is included in your methodology by clearly explaining the message Jesus communicated to Peter in John 21:15-17 by explaining the two different Greek words translated by one word in English "love".Click to expand...
The Greek enhances the definition now doesn't it? But all along the meaning is right there.
I think you'd like for others to forget English ios made up of many different languages, including Greek. -
EdSutton said: ↑This is certainly true.
In addition, one might note that in Lk. 4:16-21, Jesus read from the scroll of Isaiah, that was present in the synagogue at Nazareth, where the text He read from (not some text which He may have paraphrased) complies with neither the LXX or Masoretic text, and pronounced what He had read as Scripture!This passage is from Is. 61:1-3, which apparently reads in this manner in the Massoretic text (and I do make the assumption that the translators have accurately rendered the Massoretic text here) in these words.Here is how the LXX reads for the same passage as translated here -
http://www.ccel.org/bible/brenton/Isaiah/61.html
One should note the differences in the texts, as shown by the blue words which I have bolded, here.
Incidentally, here is a link to the LXX where this can also be found.
http://www.studylight.org/isb/bible...on=0&it=kjv&ot=lxx&nt=na&Enter=Perform+Search
The point is, these OT texts of Isaiah are indeed different, even to the third one which Jesus read from. Yet He specifically proclaimed this as Scripture.
Personally, I'm gonna' agree with Jesus. :jesus:
Any others may do as they choose.
EdClick to expand...
For those unaware of the trickery here, Greek was the common man's tongue of the Jews under Roman rule. Most did not even speak Hebrew. -
Harold Garvey said: ↑Would you agree that most of who Jesus spoke to NEEDED to hear the word in GreeK?Click to expand...Harold Garvey said:EdSutton said:The point is, these OT texts of Isaiah are indeed different, even to the third one which Jesus read from. Yet He specifically proclaimed this as Scripture.Click to expand...Click to expand...
I have attempted no trickery of any kind.
No my brothers and sisters, the real "trickery" is here offered in the "question-begging" and fancy footwork by which Harold Garvey is side-stepping and avoiding answering the questions raised, and attempting to change what someone has actually said, by implying something else, entirely. And I am not falling for such subterfuge.
Ed -
Harold Garvey said: ↑There you go, placing the authority of the word of God into man's hands.Click to expand...
easy, define love, exhaustively, without showing the meaning of the passage.Click to expand...
The Greek enhances the definition now doesn't it? But all along the meaning is right there.Click to expand...
I think you'd like for others to forget English is made up of many different languages, including Greek.Click to expand...
Do you know what the Hebrew word for wife is? -
Harold Garvey said: ↑Would you agree that most of who Jesus spoke to NEEDED to hear the word in GreeK?
For those unaware of the trickery here, Greek was the common man's tongue of the Jews under Roman rule. Most did not even speak Hebrew.Click to expand... -
EdSutton said: ↑Whether or not I would agree with your posed question is irrelevant. The fact remains that in Luke 4, Jesus read Isa. 61:1-2a from a copy of Isaiah that does not match any known MSS in any version or language, be it a copy of the Greek LXX or any Hebrew MSS of that passage, and pronounced what He read to be Scripture.I have not claimed otherwise, as to what language was being spoken in Luke 4, which indeed was that of koine Greek. (And let it be noted that I have here cited renderings from an Hebrew rendition, which is purported to be apparently identical to the Massoretic Text, the LXX, and the third copy from which Jesus read.)
I have attempted no trickery of any kind.Click to expand...
No my brothers and sisters, the real "trickery" is here offered in the "question-begging" and fancy footwork by which Harold Garvey is side-stepping and avoiding answering the questions raised, and attempting to change what someone has actually said, by implying something else, entirely. And I am not falling for such subterfuge.
EdClick to expand...
talking about "subterfuge"!!!:sleeping_2:
deal with the facts and stop maligning the thoughts of others. -
gb93433 said: ↑Translation, yes. God's word no.Click to expand...
Could you explain?Click to expand...
Then explain the differences between the two words translated as love. There is a difference in the usages of thsoe words then what the English depicts.Click to expand...
Humorous that you understand Greek in English then deny English can relate the Greek.
So what is the difference between scribe and graph?Click to expand...
Please show us your definitions and the Greek from where you form your opinion and i will show you that your explanation is in English.:tongue3:
Do you know what the Hebrew word for wife is?Click to expand...
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