Have Southern Baptists Strayed?

[Phillip]

I think there may be some confusion here too. Since God is Omnipotent and Omnipresent and exists outside of the time and space that we know as our universe, then He is well aware of who will be a Christian and who does not. Because I believe the entire world plays out in front of Him on a continuous basis since He is not constrained by time and time is a creation for human beings to live our lives through; part of the universe created by God.

God is responsible for our salvation. The Holy Spirit calls us, we accept His gift of salvation by grace, but not because of our doing, because of God's offer to us. Only certain people are going to get this offer. This winds up looking like an election because God pre-aware of the results. So, technically, election would be a correct term.

This is considered Calvanism, but we do not like to call it that, we simply call it Biblical. Calvan was just a person with an interpretation that we happen to agree with at a certain level.

This is just my humble opinion.

 

[Phillip]

Double post, sorry. The BB didn't take me back to the thread, so when I hit recycle on the "We're taking you back to....." page. It caused a double post. It could be a BB software glitch.

But, I will also mention that our service provider was having problems dropping packets this weekend, but after calling them it started working okay, so I don't know where the problem is.

 

[cindig]

Dr.Bob,
You are absolutely correct in saying that pastors don't preach it and the members don't have a clue. In our church our pastor is going over the Baptist Faith and Message. Tonight it was on grace. I might add that our church has grown very much in the last 2 years. We have many that have come from Assembly of God, Church of Christ and Methodist. He was asked to preach on our beliefs. I was very curious how he was going to handle the Eternal Security part. It has been years since anything about Eternal Security has even come up,and there has been plenty of opportunities. I really believe he didn't want to upset our new church growth. But, I would have to say he did quite well. To me he seemed to tip toe around certain parts, but all in all I think they got what he meant.

I believe it is of utmost importance to know what you believe, and how your church believes. If we are dificient in our beliefs how can we lead someone to Christ? I am 100% behind a very firm doctrinely sound church. And I do believe I am a Calvanist,probably all 5 points.
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[Phillip]

Our pastor preaches Eternal Security all of the time. The only thing he does not mention is Calvanism by name. Just because we are in agreement with Calvanism does not mean we use the term because it is unbiblical.

If we believe something that Billy Graham believes in, it certainly would not be right to state that we believe in Grahamism. (Just an example.)

If you will look at your Faith and Message (assuming you are SBC), then you will find scripture after each section where that part comes from. Lots of scripture. . .

 

[cindig]

You are right Phillip, Calvanism is not in the Bible, I just beleive in the Word of God, and I believe it is very clear on our Eternal Security.
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[OldRegular]

I posted this earlier but believe in light of some of the responses that a partial repost is worthwhile.

Each time I hear someone put down Calvinism I recall something that Charles Spurgeon, that greatest of Baptist preachers since the Apostle Paul, wrote: Calvinism is just a "nickname" for the Biblical Doctrines of Grace, or words to that effect.

 

[EaglewingIS4031]

I am SBC and reformed. A TULIP lovin' flower powered 5 pointer.
Most of the church I now attend is not.
I have atended and know many people who attend a reformed SBC Church. I Don't go there because I tend to be NCT and they are more (old)Covenant and therefore a little legalistic for my taste. However I love those Bretheren at that church.
I grew up in an an extrmely Arminian SBC church.
My Dad describes himself as the "Free willer of Free Willers." He is also some what Landmarkish in his perception of Baptist History. HE IS SO WRONG! But his faith is strong so I know he is one of the elect.

Check out www.reformedreader.org

 

[dianetavegia]

Originally posted by EaglewingIS4031:
HE IS SO WRONG! But his faith is strong so I know he is one of the elect.

Since JESUS saves and not Calvinism, that's mighty nice of you to think so.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
I've been in SBC churches since birth and have never had a Calvinistic preacher and would not stay under one.

They are on the rise in the SBC though. The divide is getting wider and wider.

 

[dianetavegia]

I think I'll hide in this little town in Georgia where I'm in the majority!

 

[Hardsheller]

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
I've been in SBC churches since birth and have never had a Calvinistic preacher and would not stay under one.

Diane,

That's because you've never heard me preach!

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
The London Baptist confession is covenantal and therefore should be rejected.

I am a calvinist, but would oppose any movement toward covenantalism.

If one reads the Bible [not a Study Bible] completely starting with the book of Genesis what does he read about, covenants or dispensations?

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Phillip:
I think there may be some confusion here too. Since God is Omnipotent and Omnipresent and exists outside of the time and space that we know as our universe, then He is well aware of who will be a Christian and who does not. Because I believe the entire world plays out in front of Him on a continuous basis since He is not constrained by time and time is a creation for human beings to live our lives through; part of the universe created by God.

God is responsible for our salvation. The Holy Spirit calls us, we accept His gift of salvation by grace, but not because of our doing, because of God's offer to us. Only certain people are going to get this offer. This winds up looking like an election because God pre-aware of the results. So, technically, election would be a correct term.

This is considered Calvanism, but we do not like to call it that, we simply call it Biblical. Calvan was just a person with an interpretation that we happen to agree with at a certain level.

This is just my humble opinion.

God being pre-aware of the results is not election. God choosing some unto salvation in Jesus Christ is election. The Apostle Paul writes in Ephesians as follows:

Ephesians 1:3-7
3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

 

[Daniel David]

Old Regular, you will actually find Scriptural usage of both.

Eph. 1 mentions at least three.

That isn't the point at all. Covenantalists have invented three covenants of which Scripture NEVER mentions.

 

[Bluefalcon]

As an old preacher on the radio used to say, "I believe in biblical predestination!" Those who say Jesus only died for a fraction of the world (limited atonement) can't support their answer with the consensus of Scripture. And, BTW, what do you think Peter's "elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father means"? We're elect according to foreknowledge, folks, and what this foreknowledge is regarding, we know for certain it is not works, and believing in Jesus is not "works", folks, contrary to popular Calvinist preaching. Salvation is nowhere found in Scripture to be compulsory, but rather, as one of my favorite 19th commentators says, "suasory", where sinners are persuaded by the Holy Spirit, not compulsed. Sure, God loved Jacob and hated Esau, so what? National election is different than personal election, as millions of Jews in the past who went straight to hell would tell us. I love "Calvinists" anyway, love to pick apart their faulty system like a FALCON! HAHAHAHA!

Yours,

Bluefalcon

 

[dianetavegia]

Well said Bluefalcon!

(Kathleen! I lived in Kathleen, Ga. when I got married.)

 

[Bro Tony]

Why oh why do people think if you aren't a Calvinist that you're Arminians?

Diane,

I completely agree with you. Some people have an all or nothing view of Calvinism/Arminianism, as you can see in some of the post between yours and mine. I get so tired of labels that require us to interpret Scripture within the box of that particular man-made theology. Just be bibilical and you will see that neither the full blown calvinist nor the full blown arminian is totally correct.
Bro Tony

 

[JGrubbs]

I agree!! I don't agree 100% with either Calvinism or Arminianism. I believe both have some good points and both have some bad points.

 

[dianetavegia]

Well I was beginning to think I was the only board member who felt this way! Thanks Guys!

To demand a person must be a follower of some mere man's teachings or they aren't saved is very, very wrong in my reading of scripture! I'm not a follower of Calvin. I'm a follower of Jesus.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
Diane,

The problem with that, as I see it, is that if you can choose your salvation, then you can choose to give it back. You are the one who is responsible for your salvation. If God elects you for salvation, it is God's choice and therefore, we are relying on God for our salvation totally. We, in no way under Calvinism, rely on ourselves for our salvation.

Joseph Botwinick

Diane or anyone else,

Can you dispute what I have said in this quote above?

Thanks,

Joseph Botwinick