Have Southern Baptists Strayed?

I don't know about all the SBC churches, but this fat Soouthern boy does!

In Christ,
Trotter

 

Dr. Bob,
I looked up what the beliefs of Reformed Baptist are, and it sounds just like mine, and I am Southern Baptist. What exactly are the differences?
Thanks
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We teach this. Whats the problem?

 

That's a big 10-4 down here in southwest Florida!

 

I've been in SBC churches since birth and have never had a Calvinistic preacher and would not stay under one.

 

Most southern baptists are more Calvinistic than they think! They would more accurately be labelled 2 or 3 point Calvinists than Arminians(which is not simply non-Calvinist).

There are not many SBC churches here in WV - only 2 in this local area. I used to attend an SBC church. Very sound doctrinally but not "reformed". All SBC churches I've been to have been likewise - although that's only a small representation.

 

Why oh why do people think if you aren't a Calvinist that you're Arminians?

I do NOT believe in pre selection (election) of a few for salvation and pre selection of others for hell. To me, this is the most important part of the Calvinistic belief and if you aren't a 5 pointer, you're not a Calvinist, IMHO.

 

Diane,

Calvinists = Election / predestination
Arminian = Free will

If you don't believe in Election / Predestination, the only alternative is a free will choice, and that would make you an Arminian.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Arminians do not believe in Once Saved, Always Saved and I do, as does my church(es).

Honestly Joseph, again, if someone isn't a 5 pointer.... then the labels don't apply! I'm neither. Our pastor says to tell people we're just Biblical Christians.

 

I've always hated the term "Arminian" because I think the average person doesn't know what it means really.


Consider the baptist who believes in the total depravity of man and who believes that believers are eternally secure. He however disagrees with limited atonement and believes that grace can be resisted. He believes in a loose sort of election but not to the point of supralapsarianism. What is he?

He is NOT an "Arminian". Geisler calls this a "two point Calvinist".

Consider the original Arminian Remonstrance... Eternal security was something that was rejected - but the obverse was not necessarily validated. That is to say Jacob Arminius' followers didn't all believe that salvation was lost again after each subsequent sin. Look at the 2 main "Arminian" branches of Christianity - Wesleyanism and Catholicism. Both would reject the idea of being "semi-Pelagian". Both bodies subscribe to a belief that there is a cooperation between an individual (with free will) and the Holy Spirit - that is to say a person's own will does not save him!

So what is our baptist churchman????

 

The London Baptist confession is covenantal and therefore should be rejected.

I am a calvinist, but would oppose any movement toward covenantalism.

 

Diane,

The problem with that, as I see it, is that if you can choose your salvation, then you can choose to give it back. You are the one who is responsible for your salvation. If God elects you for salvation, it is God's choice and therefore, we are relying on God for our salvation totally. We, in no way under Calvinism, rely on ourselves for our salvation.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Back to the subject. I do not see a change in Southern Baptist Churches, except possibly some larger churches that seem to be becoming liberal.

I just came from a church such as this, the pastor actually admitted that he was not Baptist and determined that the Baptist churches had the most opportunity to have career growth, so he picked SBC and went to Southwestern Seminary in TX.

He's extremely liberal and very political. For example, the church voted about 52% to 48% to build a new church after he requested people to pray about the decision. He had the kids come in and vote (they usually are not in the business meetings).

They actually have dances in the church with so-called "Christian rock" music. Sounds like heavy metal to me, and I run a Contemporary FM radio station in town, so I know the music quite well.

In our church, I discussed Calvanism with the pastor. He will not preach Calvanism as a doctrine by the name of "Calvanism" because it is not a Biblical name; but he is definitely not Arminian. He had a bad experience when explaining Calvanism to a person who went off the deep end.....loooonnnnggg story.

We are very conservative. It appears most of the smaller churches here in the Bible belt have been very happy with the conservative reformation of the SBC.

The only thing we do not like is the fact that Dr. Criswell, who preached it would not let go of FBC Dallas, and he teaches his students that the pastor controls the church to the level of having things slanted his way in the voting. At least this is what I have heard, although it may be more urban legend than real.

Outside of that Dr. Criswell was an excellent Bible teacher.

In answer, I think everything is the same in the heartland. We have churches accepting women pastors and some other things, but these are on the East Coast where liberalism is natural. Most churches that disagree with the Baptist Faith and Message drop out of the convention. Example: Second Baptist Church in Oklahoma City voted to change from Baptist.

It was a sad day for Baptists, but they did the right thing considering their liberal beliefs.