Daniel David
New Member
trailblazer, we actually will enjoy the same room. The others will be straightened out when they get there.
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Have Southern Baptists Strayed?
- Thread starter OldRegular
- Start date
Daniel David
New Member
Oldreg, I would accuse them of catering to the position of the catholic church, which the reformers never got around to actually studying. I will simply say that the theological development of eschatology was not then what it is today.
Sort of how justification by faith alone nearly dropped off the face of the earth due to the catholics. Justification is a priority over eschatology. Once salvation was nailed down, it was time to move to polity, ordinances, eschatology, etc.
Sort of how justification by faith alone nearly dropped off the face of the earth due to the catholics. Justification is a priority over eschatology. Once salvation was nailed down, it was time to move to polity, ordinances, eschatology, etc.
Daniel David
New Member
I will also add that many good meaning people believe things wrong without wanting to be wrong. Just look at many of the non-sovereigntists in this thread. I am sure they don't mean to be wrong.
trailblazer
New Member
ooops! God's gonna need another room for the non-sovereignists!
D
dianetavegia
Guest
I've never seen Calvin mentioned in any scripture....
For the Calvinist: Without a bunch of German rationalization or scripture wrangling, did God harden Pharoah's heart or did Pharoah harden his own heart?
Exod 7:13 Yet Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the Lord had said.
Exod 7:22 But the magicians of Egypt did the same with their secret arts; and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the Lord had said.
Exod 8:15 But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not listen to them, as the Lord had said.
Exod 8:19 Then the magicians said to Pharaoh, "This is the finger of God." But Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the Lord had said.
Exod 8:32 But Pharaoh hardened his heart this time also, and he did not let the people go.
Exod 9:7 Pharaoh sent, and behold, there was not even one of the livestock of Israel dead. But the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go.
Exod 9:12 And the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not listen to them, just as the Lord had spoken to Moses.
Exod 9:34 But when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunder had ceased, he sinned again and hardened his heart, he and his servants.
35 Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he did not let the sons of Israel go, just as the Lord had spoken through Moses.
10:1 Then the Lord said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may perform these signs of Mine among them,
Exod 10:20 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let the sons of Israel go.
Exod 10:27 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he was not willing to let them go.
Exod 11:10 Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh; yet the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let the sons of Israel go out of his land.
Exod 14:8 The Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and he chased after the sons of Israel as the sons of Israel were going out boldly.
1Sam 6:6 "Why then do you harden your hearts as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? When He had severely dealt with them, did they not allow the people to go, and they departed?
Exod 7:13 Yet Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the Lord had said.
Exod 7:22 But the magicians of Egypt did the same with their secret arts; and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the Lord had said.
Exod 8:15 But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not listen to them, as the Lord had said.
Exod 8:19 Then the magicians said to Pharaoh, "This is the finger of God." But Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the Lord had said.
Exod 8:32 But Pharaoh hardened his heart this time also, and he did not let the people go.
Exod 9:7 Pharaoh sent, and behold, there was not even one of the livestock of Israel dead. But the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go.
Exod 9:12 And the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not listen to them, just as the Lord had spoken to Moses.
Exod 9:34 But when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunder had ceased, he sinned again and hardened his heart, he and his servants.
35 Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he did not let the sons of Israel go, just as the Lord had spoken through Moses.
10:1 Then the Lord said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may perform these signs of Mine among them,
Exod 10:20 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let the sons of Israel go.
Exod 10:27 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he was not willing to let them go.
Exod 11:10 Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh; yet the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let the sons of Israel go out of his land.
Exod 14:8 The Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and he chased after the sons of Israel as the sons of Israel were going out boldly.
1Sam 6:6 "Why then do you harden your hearts as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? When He had severely dealt with them, did they not allow the people to go, and they departed?
Daniel David
New Member
No, but the concepts assigned to his name are all over the Word.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
DD
Spurgeon said that "Calvinism" was just a nickname for the Biblical Doctrines of Grace.
It is my personal opinion that a lot of people reject the teaching of the Sovereignty of God in salvation, the Doctrines of Grace if you prefer, because the name "Calvinism" is used to describe them.
My understanding is that Calvin developed his 5 points in response to the 5 "remonstrances" of Arminius. Actually I think that the Doctrines of Grace are far more extensive than the 5 point TULIP and my understanding is that Calvin recognized that. I believe that a lot of people see a discussion of the 5 points and do not see the Grace of God revealed in them but rather a stern arbitrary God.
My own opinion is that the Doctrine of Election magnifies the Grace of God and is, therefore, one of the most precious Doctrines of Scripture. Hopefully Southern Baptists will come to realize that if it were not for Election no one would be saved.
Daniel David
New Member
gb, perhaps you could explain how those texts are opposed to Calvinism.
God said that Pharoah would harden his heart.
Then God said that God would harden Pharoah's heart.
The order doesn't have any bearing on the matter. God raised Pharoah up, confronted him, then tore him down like a paper doll.
God said that Pharoah would harden his heart.
Then God said that God would harden Pharoah's heart.
The order doesn't have any bearing on the matter. God raised Pharoah up, confronted him, then tore him down like a paper doll.
Daniel David
New Member
Exactly right Oldreg.
D
dianetavegia
Guest
Oh! So the concepts are CALVIN'S? I thought it was God's word.
Charles Meadows
New Member
" Therefore, calling myself a christian or a calvinist means the same thing .
You might think I am joking."
No unfortunately we know you're not.
"I I don't know why I waste my time with liberals. "
You DO waste the time. Instead of arguing substantively you cower behind insults. If you can't deal with it - just call it liberal! This does do justice to your position.
You might think I am joking."
No unfortunately we know you're not.
"I I don't know why I waste my time with liberals. "
You DO waste the time. Instead of arguing substantively you cower behind insults. If you can't deal with it - just call it liberal! This does do justice to your position.
Daniel David
New Member
Diane, what do you not get about what I am saying? The cocepts are in Scripture and were merely organized by Calvin.
Chuckles stop stalking me. I already have a BB stalker.
Chuckles stop stalking me. I already have a BB stalker.
Charles Meadows
New Member
D
dianetavegia
Guest
stalking
n.
The act or crime of willfully and repeatedly following or harassing another person in circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to fear injury or death
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Get your facts straight, Daniel David.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Concept
n.
A general idea derived or inferred from specific instances or occurrences.
Something formed in the mind; a thought or notion.
A scheme; a plan
n.
The act or crime of willfully and repeatedly following or harassing another person in circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to fear injury or death
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Get your facts straight, Daniel David.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Concept
n.
A general idea derived or inferred from specific instances or occurrences.
Something formed in the mind; a thought or notion.
A scheme; a plan
Daniel David
New Member
Diane, he is cyber-stalking me.
You really don't know? I thought you were the calvinist? I see no answers from you or Calvin regardingb the matter except rationalization/humanism. On the BB you call people names and heap insults but you really don't know the answer? Perhaps you understand Calvin better than scripture.
Daniel David
New Member
What is your point gb? Or, perhaps you don't have a point. I gave you the answer.