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Featured Have you been deceived by Satan through your church?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Samuels, Aug 30, 2017.

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  1. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Paul says in several verses that (eternal) life can be lost,
    (eternal) death can be gained, etc.
    He warns believers in the churches that sin results in (eternal) death.
    Please argue with him instead of me.
     
  2. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Of course He won't ... so what?
    I learned 30 years ago in Kindergarden Christianity 101 that "God is love".
    Don't we all understand that God loves all humans.
    and ...
    Don't we all understand that not all humans are going to heaven.

    I advise you to read your Bible with an open mind and heart,
    forgetting everything your church has taught you!
    If you do this, the precious Holy Spirit will reveal spiritual Truth to you as you read.
     
  3. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    The Lord can do whatever He pleases ...
    Seals can be broke.
    Grace can be removed..
     
  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    God is not a liar. Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Not even God can undo the salvation of the Christian, as He ordained that once He sets a person into Christ, and seals that act with the Holy Spirit, it cannot be broken!
     
  7. Katarina Von Bora

    Katarina Von Bora Active Member

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    I advise you to read these scriptures and properly exegete them. Otherwise, you are making things up.

    Sadly, you are wrong and in a place where scripture refutes you.



    Faith is a gift.

    Grace is a gift.

    Salvation is a gift.

    Repentance is a gift.

    You are on the wrong side of scripture, that is, unless you can provide scripture that says men have free will unto salvation.

    Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning (James 1:17).

    But, God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life (Romans 5:8-10).

    And, this is the promise that He hath promised us, even eternal life (1 John 2:25).

    And, for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance (Hebrews 9:15).

    “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life” (John 6:47).

    “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24).

    “Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal” (Matthew 25:45-46).

    That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:15-16).

    Then said Jesus unto the twelve, “Will ye also go away?” Then Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life” (John 6:67-68).

    These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” (John 17:1-3).

    Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation m received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God (1 Peter 1:18-21).


    I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be forever; nothing can be put to it, nor anything taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past (Ecclesiastes 3:14-15).


    And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose (Romans 8:28).


    “For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. How think ye? If a man have a hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? And, if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish” (Matthew 18:11-14).


    “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And, I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one” (John 10:27-30).


    “And, this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day” (John 6:39).


    “While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition [Judas]; that the scripture might be fulfilled” (John 17:12).

    We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not (1 John 5:18).


    “But, if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: But, when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils” (Luke 11:20-22).


    Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that in you, than he that is in the world
    (1 John 4:4).


    There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it (1 Corinthians 10:13).



    “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect” (Matthew 24:24).



    They went out from us, but they were not of us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us (1 John 2:19).


    Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:2-6).



    And, the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen (2 Timothy 4:18).


    Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen (Jude 24-25).


    The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD ; and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand. I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread. He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed (Psalm 37:23-26).


    And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your hole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24).
     
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  8. Katarina Von Bora

    Katarina Von Bora Active Member

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    So according to you, God is a liar! You don't know the first thing about the scriptures and you have just proven it for all to see.
     
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    But my friend...Paul did not say that anywhere.
    I have nothing to argue about as I understand warnings given to professing Christians are different from those given salvation and the promises.
    The warning verses were given to a mixed assembly.
    Real saints persevere to the end;
    Chapter 17: Of The Perseverance of the Saints
    1._____ Those whom God hath accepted in the beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, and given the precious faith of his elect unto, can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved, seeing the gifts and callings of God are without repentance, whence he still begets and nourisheth in them faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit unto immortality; and though many storms and floods arise and beat against them, yet they shall never be able to take them off that foundation and rock which by faith they are fastened upon; notwithstanding, through unbelief and the temptations of Satan, the sensible sight of the light and love of God may for a time be clouded and obscured from them, yet he is still the same, and they shall be sure to be kept by the power of God unto salvation, where they shall enjoy their purchased possession, they being engraven upon the palm of his hands, and their names having been written in the book of life from all eternity.
    ( John 10:28, 29; Philippians 1:6; 2 Timothy 2:19; 1 John 2:19; Psalms 89:31, 32; 1 Corinthians 11:32; Malachi 3:6 )
    2._____ This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father, upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ and union with him, the oath of God, the abiding of his Spirit, and the seed of God within them, and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.
    ( Romans 8:30 Romans 9:11, 16; Romans 5:9, 10; John 14:19; Hebrews 6:17, 18; 1 John 3:9; Jeremiah 32:40 )

    3._____ And though they may, through the temptation of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins, and for a time continue therein, whereby they incur God's displeasure and grieve his Holy Spirit, come to have their graces and comforts impaired, have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded, hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves, yet shall they renew their repentance and be preserved through faith in Christ Jesus to the end.
    ( Matthew 26:70, 72, 74; Isaiah 64:5, 9; Ephesians 4:30; Psalms 51:10, 12; Psalms 32:3, 4; 2 Samuel 12:14; Luke 22:32, 61, 62 )
     
    #89 Iconoclast, Sep 14, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    No....God cannot and will not go against his word or His Covenant promise;
    13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

    14 Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.

    15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

    16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.

    17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

    18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

    19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;

    20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
     
  11. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    IMO, this has nothing to do with salvation.
    First, who is He talking about? ... True believers? Faithful believers?
    Second, just because He never gives up on Jim
    doesn't mean that Jim won't choose to fall away from the faith.
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    How can the Holy Spirit choose to fall away though?
     
  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    As Samuels is on a temporary vacation from the Baptist Board I am closing this thread.
     
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