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Hebrews 12:22-23

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Oct 5, 2019.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

    It has been asserted that the timing of when those who are enrolled in heaven cannot be discerned. Let us consider the evidence. Where are we talking about? The "heavenly Jerusalem" in which we have the living God, angels and "the general assembly" which is church of the firstborn, either referring to Christ as the firstborn, or to the assembly of those belonging to Christ.

    When are people enrolled as members of your church, before they become members or when they become members? When they become members! When we are born anew, we become spiritual children of God, and siblings of Christ. Thus we are enrolled in heaven when we are born anew. Thus since creation, after we lived without mercy, and then were called into His marvelous light. The church is comprised of all those called out.

    Another line of evidence is we are made alive together with Christ, thus when transferred into the kingdom of His Son, and having been made alive it follows our names would be entered or enrolled in the Lamb's book of life.
     
  2. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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    Apples and oranges.
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Hebrews 12:22-23 answers the who, not the when. The LORD's book has names in it to begin with it (Exodus 32:33; Psalms 69:28). And you choose to deny it is that book (Revelation 20:15).

    ". . . May they be blotted out of the book of life
    And may they not be recorded with the righteous. . . ." -- NASB.
     
    #3 37818, Oct 5, 2019
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  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I am confused, no names are ever blotted out of the Lamb's book of life. The issue with Calvinism is when are the names written. I presented a detailed argument as to why the names are entered when a person is born anew and made perfect. Your claim, in far as I know, is that the names are written before creation. However, nothing supports that fiction, so you say taint so to the support for enrollment when God places us spiritually in Christ.

    You say another book, the "Lord's book of the living" has names it to begin with, but the verses you cited do not say when those names were entered. The reference to Revelation 20:15 refers to the book of life (meaning the Lamb's book of life) in which any name entered is never blotted out. And as my OP indicated the evidence is strong the names are entered when an individual is placed in Christ.
     
    #4 Van, Oct 5, 2019
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  5. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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    In turn, nothing supports your position that they are written at the time of salvation either.
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another taint so post, not even addressing the support for names being written in the Lamb's book of life when we are made alive, and when we are enrolled in the 'general assembly" of the spirits made perfect.
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    In your view. The word of God teaches no such thing. Names have to be in the book before being or never being blotted out.
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Once again, I am unable to figure out your point. No such things refers to what thing.

    Possible meaning, Names are not written in the Lamb's book of life when we are made alive or made perfect? If that is your statement, fine. You did not say when "the bible teaches" names are written. Thus a waste of time taint so post.

    1) Scripture teaches names were not written, and others by inference were written, since the foundation of the world. Therefore the claim that names were written in the Lamb's book of life before the foundation of the world is specifically precluded by scripture. Revelation 13:8

    2) People are "enrolled" when and not before they join a group or church or assembly, therefore the saints made perfect were enrolled when they were made perfect.

    Thus my statement remains, since the inauguration of the New Covenant, the bible clearly teaches names are entered in the Lamb's book of life when they are spiritually placed in Christ.
     
  9. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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    I did address it saying that it's not found in any of the verses you posted.
     
  10. Particular

    Particular Active Member

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    Hebrews 12:22-24 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

    This is such a blessed passage for anytime the saints assemble on this Earth.
    When we come together as a church we enter into the Embassy of the Kingdom of God. We assemble in the Embassy as citizens of the Kingdom of God. As Christians we are living in a kingdom of this world, but our citizenship is in God's Kingdom.
    Therefore, these verses express that the angels and saints who have passed on, join us in celebration of our King. Chapter 11 tells us about saints who had faith. The beginning of chapter 12 shows us that we, whom God has authored faith, join the saints as children of God. Our local assembly in our little Embassy is actually an assembly of all the angels and saints of old.
    That should give you a somber grasp of the sacred assembly into which you gather on Sunday mornings or anytime the members of your church gather together.
    Sadly, most churches do not take these verses and connect the present juxtaposition of our present gatherings with the assembly of God's host in heaven. We miss out on the magnitude of church assembly.
     
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  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Lets leave it there Sir. Folks just read my posts.

    Since the inauguration of the New Covenant, the bible clearly teaches names are entered in the Lamb's book of life when they are spiritually placed in Christ.
     
    #11 Van, Oct 7, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The question is not when our names are written down by God into the Lamb's book of life, as from all eternity we were found in there, but the real question would be did God record us down there based upon him determing all those in there, or based upon him knowing who would accept Jesus by act of their "free will"
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Why post such nonsense. No one is enrolled before they become members, and no one's name was written before the foundation of the world, rather names by inference were written since the foundation of the world.

    Since the inauguration of the New Covenant, the bible clearly teaches names are entered in the Lamb's book of life when they are spiritually placed in Christ and are made perfect.
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Did God know whose are His own before they were saved?
     
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  16. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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    Yet you can't show one verse that actually says that without you reading into it.
     
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  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Why waste our time with these questions I have answered time and time again.

    No one is enrolled before they become members, and no one's name was written before the foundation of the world, rather names by inference were written since the foundation of the world.

    Since the inauguration of the New Covenant, the bible clearly teaches names are entered in the Lamb's book of life when they are spiritually placed in Christ and are made perfect.
     
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another empty taint so post.
     
  19. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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    You say you have answered them but you have not given a single verse that actually says what you claim without adding commentary to it.

    How do you know this?

    Reference please.
     
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  20. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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    It's not an empty taint so post. It's a fact. You have not provided one verse that says what you claim.
     
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