Heresy?: Calvinism or Arminianism
Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by OldRegular, Jul 7, 2005.
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Bob Krajcik
I agree with essentially all of Spurgeon's remarks regarding the doctrine of free will in your last post. However, though I believe it is a perversion of the Scriptural doctrine of Salvation I do not believe that it falls to the level of Heresy.
I have stated in an earlier post that I am of the opinion that any belief that denies the true nature of God and His purpose in Salvation is heretical. However, I suppose that since to some extent heresy is in "the eye of the beholder" and it could honestly be claimed that freewillism denies God's purpose in Salvation.
I choose not to call it by that name, rather to simply say it is grevious error. -
I can remember when every direction you turned, there was someone preaching about the essentials of the faith. Hold the essentials was the battle cry. But, IMO, there is a problem as I see it. The essential nature of God is left out as regards what is termed the essentials of the faith. The Author of the faith has His attributes left out of what is defined as the essentials of the faith. Therefore man advances to the forefront, man thought to be sovereign over God. Words have lost meaning as man advances in his usurped position of supposed sovereignty over God. The distinction between truth and error is lost, and while there is talk of essentials, the nature of God and so God Himself is denied His rightful place.
By grace,
Bob Krajcik
Mansfield, Ohio -
These are strong words from the pen of A. W. Pink, speaking of Election.
Bob Krajcik
Mansfield, Ohio
July 8, 2005
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Bob Krajcik
Mansfield, Ohio
July 8, 2005
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By Grace,
Bob Krajcik
Mansfield, Ohio -
Thank you for this thread. While we debate passionately, we sometimes get caught up in our emotions and we fall into bitterness. Let me say here and now, for my own benefit, that I honor all my Arminian brothers and sisters who hold the faith. They do not deny Calvinism because they hate God. They fear that Calvinism makes God the author of man's sin and that Calvinism asserts that God takes pleasure in destroying people whom He created for the purpose. In order to stop such blasphemy, they renounce Calvinism. I affirm their love for God and their desire that God be honored.
Thanks for the Spurgeon quotes. They were excellent, except that in the last one he uses the word "heresy" to describe Arminianism. Note, however, that he begins by conceding that many "good men" preach Arminianism. -
Harold O.J. Brown has an excellent book on heresy. He points out that the early church had a "nascent" orthodoxy, that is, an orthodoxy that was assumed, albeit not really written down on paper. Then heresy arises and the Church is forced to put statements on paper that assert the Church's position vis-a-vis the heretics. Thus, an explicit orthodoxy is always stated in terms of heresy.
Bob points out that in our discussions of the "essentials of the faith," God's nature was not stated among them. That's because, prior to the present day, it wasn't an issue. Because of the heresy of Open Theism, it's time for us to define orthodoxy in terms of God's nature. We must assert, along with the orthodox of all ages, that God transcends this universe as its Creator. He is not of this world and is not subject to time. He is infinite.
I would urge my good Arminian brothers and sisters not to fall into the heresy of Open Theism, also called Free Will Theism. -
I didn't care for Pink's quote. He says that the regenerate submit to God's word. This of course is true. They submit to God's word as best as they understand it. Good Arminians are convinced that God's word teaches Arminianism. I think they're mistaken but we've got to remember that we're all in process. When I get to heaven and Paul sits me down and straightens me out on my many errors in theology, I will realize just how great grace is. I am saved, not because I get it all right. It's not the final judgment is a final exam. And wouldn't it be a hoot if Paul says to me, "David, you blockhead! The Arminians were right but you were too stubborn to learn from them!"
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I would not urge anyone to fall into error much less heresy, even if it did make the debate more intellectually honest.
However, it is worth noting that error unchecked will inevitably lead to heresy. I believe Brown's book shows this . If my memory is correct Brown's book also shows that much of the early debate in the early church over supposed heresy was the result of misunderstanding the differences in language.
Furthermore, it is also worth noting that in his early days Pink was captive to the error of dispensationalism. Please note I said error, not heresy. -
Better to have 'Open Theism' than captivity to misunderstanding and closed doors that Calvinism spawns.
It is better to be open to all that God offers to man, than to close off God's wonderful words of life to those who "are not elect" according to Calvinism!
It is better that God's word be preached to every creature, in every tongue and nations for all to hear, than to keep it isolated to "the elect".
It is better that Man not limit God by man's interpretation of God's word, than to so limit God to the constraints of Calvinist doctrine.
It is better to take the thoughts formed by the literal words in the bible than for man to take each word in the bible literally the way Calvinism teaches.
Any debate that opens man's eyes to the truth of the Christian religion is worthy debate. Calvinism most often loses in such debate. -
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By grace,
Bob Krajcik
Mansfield, Ohio
July 9, 2005
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Certainly a Calvinist can be saved, for ignorance is no hindrance to salvation...
[ July 09, 2005, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ] -
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Should have been bolded not quoted. Wrong button.
Turnabout is fair play.
How NICE of the Calvinists to allow us to possibly be saved, even tho they consider us to be ignorant. -
By the way, "the Calvinists" did not post that. One Calvinist did. I disagree with the way he said it, but I thought maybe he was responding to something else that I could not find. If that is not the case then he should have said it differently. But we are all ignorant in a sense, so I wouldn't worry that much about it.
"For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God." -
That word ignorant is a Bible word. Ignorance - ignorant is used various ways many times in my Bible.
Be careful how you sooth the ones offended at the word ignorant. You might want to check, the Arminians might also be offended at the use of a verse that refers to the chosen. The Bible is an offensive Book for some.
1 Corinthians 1:27 (KJV) But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
By grace,
Bob Krajcik
Mansfield, Ohio
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