Hierarchy in Baptist Churches
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by saturneptune, Sep 27, 2013.
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite SupporterTom Butler said: ↑Tom Bryant said: ↑The Bible descibes the church as a family.[?QUOTE]
I think of it as a family, too. But you mentioned the Bible passage. Where is the passage describing church as family?Click to expand...
Of course that would end up as a topical message and create an issue fro some folks.:laugh:Click to expand... -
JonC said: ↑Is the thread about a hierarchy within each individual church or a hierarchy form of government external to the local church?Click to expand...
Even in elder lead Baptist churches there is not one person in charge at the top.
Pastor lead Baptist churches can operate differently. In some of those churches the pastor reigns with almost dictatorial impunity. The deacons/elders have little say. Still, there are some churches where the pastor has very little say. The deacons/elders are the ones who give him his marching orders.
Baskin Robbins may have 51 flavors, but Baptists rival the ice cream giant in their own right. -
JonC said: ↑Is the thread about a hierarchy within each individual church or a hierarchy form of government external to the local church?Click to expand...
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Herald said: ↑Good question. Our Presbyterian brethren would claim they are not hierarchical in their church government. They see the authority in the church vested in elders. The Papist system is a true hierarchy with one man who calls the shots at the top.
Even in elder lead Baptist churches there is not one person in charge at the top.
Pastor lead Baptist churches can operate differently. In some of those churches the pastor reigns with almost dictatorial impunity. The deacons/elders have little say. Still, there are some churches where the pastor has very little say. The deacons/elders are the ones who give him his marching orders.
Baskin Robbins may have 51 flavors, but Baptists rival the ice cream giant in their own right.Click to expand...
If there is a dictator in an autonomous church, then the congregation or elders, depending on their form of government, can boot him out the door. No problem. Several decades ago, we had deacons that thought they "ran the church." The congregation has the right to take away his ordination. So there are plenty of checks. A higher form of government does not provide a solution. A presbytery accomplishes nothing except waste time, money, and space. The work of the Lord is done at the local church level. -
saturneptune said: ↑A local church has all the wisdom of a presbytery, a synod, a general assembly, the pope, a council of bishops, etc.Click to expand...
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saturneptune said: ↑Several decades ago, we had deacons that thought they "ran the church."Click to expand...
The congregation has the right to take away his ordination. So there are plenty of checks. A higher form of government does not provide a solution.Click to expand...
Do you have elders in your church? -
I think a good church is one elder lead with lay elders that are well schooled in the Bible and meet the biblical qualifications. I could see a senior pastor, asst pastor and maybe three good lay elders. These guys shouldn't be yes men nor should they allow mob rule of the church to influence them.
I myself have been in churches where the church board is made up of families and moved pastors in and out as soon as he disagreed with them. These types of churches never grow. -
Rippon said: ↑Was this within the Presbyterian church you were associated with or your current Baptist church?
Earlier you said deacons thought they ran the church. But in reference to the same situation you said the congregation has the right to take away his ordination. Was it one deacon or several?
Do you have elders in your church?Click to expand...
This was just one deacon. The deacons at my church now are totally different. Deacons are servants and not a governing authority such as elders. We serve the congregation and give advice if asked. At present we do not have elders, but have discussed it. It seems the discussion of elders has become more frequent as we get more members that have a reformed mindset. -
saturneptune said: ↑At present we do not have elders, but have discussed it. It seems the discussion of elders has become more frequent as we get more members that have a reformed mindset.Click to expand...
When I was with the Plymouth Brethren there was a plurality of elders and that was in a more Arminian context.
I think it is a shame that many Baptist churches have deacons but no elders. That's out of biblical kilter. Some of those churches actually are against the office of elder and they are vocal about it. -
saturneptune said: ↑It seems the discussion of elders has become more frequent as we get more members that have a reformed mindset.Click to expand...
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JonC said: ↑Could that leadership also not come from within the congregation? Perhaps this also stresses the importance of bylaws in congregational churches.Click to expand...
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite SupporterYeshua1 said: ↑should be able to help, but in practical terms, many times a small local church might hve a financial situation, pastor/elders 'fooling around", teaching bad doctrines etc, and will need some higher authority outside to come in to straighten things out!Click to expand...
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Yeshua1 said: ↑need some higher authority outside to come in to straighten things out!Click to expand...
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Yeshua1 said: ↑should be able to help, but in practical terms, many times a small local church might hve a financial situation, pastor/elders 'fooling around", teaching bad doctrines etc, and will need some higher authority outside to come in to straighten things out!Click to expand...
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The Baptist church I belong to is one among several that make up a Association that has a name to identify each Association from their sister Associations. One time a year each Association is called into order to report on finances and membership ect. It lasts a couple of day and sister associations are invited to correspond by letters and delegation and visitors. There is preaching and lunch served. The Association have no power to lord it over God's heritage nor have any ecclesiastical power over the churches, reserving the right to withdraw from any church acting disorderly. Each Association when in session is made up of delegates sent by each church which are the Association when called in order by the Moderator. Elders are preachers that have been ordained by their home church that meet the qualifications. Preachers are not called Reverend but Elders, Deacons are also ordained by their home church. The government is with the body of each church, Deacons and Elders having only one vote.
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Jerome said: ↑Are you being taught this at your Baptist church, or is it residue from your lengthy Pentecostal training?Click to expand...
As a NMatist church has local autonomy though as to how it will govern itself, what it teaches, spends funds etc...
just saying that still have experienced first hand seeing large baptist churches split down middle due to either pastors not living when voted out, or elders deciding to 'force their agendas!"
how would those things get resolved?
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