Hip-Hop Prayer Book?

[annsni]

I Corinthians 1:18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Galatians 6:14 But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

You all just don't get it, do you?

Lebuick wrote an elegant post at the top of page 6 explaining why stuff like this is important. I'm not into hip hop culture, but neither am I into recreating a 1950s, 60's, or 70's church mentality. That generation blew it!

It was that generation that lost the youth to the world.. now WE are trying to get them back... and all you do is complain about the ways that it can be done?

He posted a good post, but the only thing some of you can get out of it is the ability to complain because someone finally pointed out to you that hymns can be worldy too. Get away from the cross and move on! Yes we need to preach it for salvation.... but grow up in the Lord.

There is more to Christianity than salvation... it is time for discipleship.

That means moving away from the cross and spreading news about what happened on the cross...

Quit worshipping the cross, and start worshipping the one who died on the cross, and then rose again.

Another song that is akin to idol worship is "the old rugged cross" Think about it, we sing a song about a piece of wood. God gave his son on the cross. That is what we should worship.... God wants worship, not songs about the creation....

Galatians 6:14 14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

 

[annsni]

Galatians 6:14 14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

LOL - Great minds, huh?

Ann

 

[J.D.]

You all just don't get it, do you?

Lebuick wrote an elegant post at the top of page 6 explaining why stuff like this is important. I'm not into hip hop culture, but neither am I into recreating a 1950s, 60's, or 70's church mentality. That generation blew it!

It was that generation that lost the youth to the world.. now WE are trying to get them back... and all you do is complain about the ways that it can be done?

He posted a good post, but the only thing some of you can get out of it is the ability to complain because someone finally pointed out to you that hymns can be worldy too. Get away from the cross and move on! Yes we need to preach it for salvation.... but grow up in the Lord.

There is more to Christianity than salvation... it is time for discipleship.

That means moving away from the cross and spreading news about what happened on the cross...

Quit worshipping the cross, and start worshipping the one who died on the cross, and then rose again.

Another song that is akin to idol worship is "the old rugged cross" Think about it, we sing a song about a piece of wood. God gave his son on the cross. That is what we should worship.... God wants worship, not songs about the creation....

Tiny, you just don't get it, do you?

Move away from the cross? The preaching of the cross is the power of God for whom? Check your Bible. "Unto us which ARE saved". Near the Cross is a perfectly scriptural song. Notice it says "JESUS keep me near the cross". Great doctrine.

"The Old Rugged Cross" has some doctrinal problems IMO because it emphasizes human effort (I will cling), but I'll take it over that hip hop bee bop stuff you guys are peddling these days.

Now tell me how did "that" generation lose the young people? I was saved during "that" era and I wasn't saved by bee-bop. It was old-fashioned preaching of the word that did it.

By embracing the counter-culture you have saved no one from it. You're kidding yourself. You validate rebellion by refusing to rebuke it. You love the sinner but if you don't rebuke his sin you are a partaker. "Thou shalt rise up before the haory head". The average young person in church today has no respect for their elders and seek only to make a name for themselves, disregarding the work of the saints before them and counting their labor as a small thing.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Tim,

I understand the frustration that is very evident in what you posted, but I also would encourage you to really think about what you say and about how harshly you are judging those whom you think are being legalistic.

You all just don't get it, do you?

Lebuick wrote an elegant post at the top of page 6 explaining why stuff like this is important. I'm not into hip hop culture, but neither am I into recreating a 1950s, 60's, or 70's church mentality. That generation blew it!

Actually, it was the generation of Adam and Eve who blew it, and every generation since them has continued to blow it, not just the folks from the 50s, 60s, and the 70s. Our current generation is blowing it right now as we speak. It is simply our nature to blow it. To be fair, however, every generation has also, through the grace of God, done some things right. The point is, it is not the culture and the wisdom of this world in any generation that has caused us to do anything right, that is the grace of God.

It was that generation that lost the youth to the world.. now WE are trying to get them back... and all you do is complain about the ways that it can be done?

That generation did not lose them, and this generation is not going to save them. That is only going to happen through the grace of God. Please do not elevate one generation over another, because when it gets down to it, we are all filthy rotten sinners who were saved by the grace of God. If you are putting your hope in this generation and their worldly methods to save the young, I will strongly argue that you are misguided in your faith. It isn't the method as much as it is the compromise with Scripture that bothers me. It is the win em at any cost mentality that bothers me. That is not our calling. Our calling is to preach the Gospel, and allow the spirit of God to draw the elect to God. Even Paul, when he was discipling the early Churches always brought them back to the central message of the Gospel. Why do we think in the 21st century that we are any better and can improve on that by embracing the message and methods of the world?

Get away from the cross and move on! Yes we need to preach it for salvation.... but grow up in the Lord.

I know you didn't really mean this the way it sounded and understand what a contradiction these two ideas really are, but still, it is sad to see you say something like this. I will never move away from the cross and I hope you, as a pastor, never do either.

There is more to Christianity than salvation... it is time for discipleship.

With this I can agree. Where I think we disagree is how discipleship should be done.

That means moving away from the cross and spreading news about what happened on the cross...

One does not move away from the cross and then spread the good news about the cross at the same time.

Quit worshipping the cross, and start worshipping the one who died on the cross, and then rose again.

Nobody here that I know of worships a cross. It is really sad to see you make that accusation.

Another song that is akin to idol worship is "the old rugged cross" Think about it, we sing a song about a piece of wood. God gave his son on the cross. That is what we should worship.... God wants worship, not songs about the creation....

If you think the Old Rugged Cross is about idol worship, then you have truly shown a great lack of understanding and discernment.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[standingfirminChrist]

We cannot draw people to Christ using worldly means such as hip-hop, entertainment, etc..

As JB and JD both stated, the Holy Spirit must do the drawing. If you bring people into the church using the world, then it is still the world that is holding those people.

We must preach Christ, we must preach the cross; the death, burial, and resurrection.

We are told to come out from amongst them and be seperate unto the Lord and not to touch the unclean thing. How can we be seperated from the world if we are using the world's entertainment to bring people into our congregations?

It may be a shock to you, but God is not interested in us building a church where tens, hundreds, or even thousands attend if the church is relying on the world to draw others. It is a stench in God's nostrils. Nothing but works salvation is shown in such a church.

Christ is coming back for a church without spot or blemish. Are the churches truly unspotted from the world when we partake of that which the world takes pleasure in?

God takes no pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[TaterTot]

Allk the knit-picking aside, I heard a concept this morning that hit home and I think applies here.
"So many people outside the church view Christians as mandating a list of things one cant and shouldnt do instead of promoting Christ's personhood first. The rest will fall in line. You really think a pimp on the street is going to open up a KJV 1611 and understand it? And the next version of the KJV was just a modern translation from that one, and so on and so on. Then there are the paraphrases.

Paul said he became "all things to all people, so that by all means" some might be saved.

 

[TaterTot]

SFIC says:Christ is coming back for a church without spot or blemish. Are the churches truly unspotted from the world when we partake of that which the world takes pleasure in?


Are you sure your interpretation of "unspotted" is correct in this context?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

James 4:4 4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Yes, I am sure unspotted fits perfectly.

 

[TaterTot]

SFIC, I am not saying you shouldnt be seperate from the world. We should be different. But it would seem that the passage to which you refer aludes to being unspotted as unnoticed, doing the things that are encompassed in religion as a natural instinct.

 

[JamieinNH]

I am very sad when I see people that have no faith in the power of the Holy Spirit. God's pull on a person's soul will win the battle against the "worldly" things some people get so up in arms about.

I see this Hip Hop Prayer Book as nothing more or less than a tract. Something to spark an interest.

Now, do I like this music? Personally, no.

Do I think that someone can be lead to Jesus with it? If not Lead, at the very least, they will hear words of God and that might spark something within their heart.

Would I expect someone that listens to this, and have had that spark to be lead to something stronger like a Bible, Bible Study, Church? Yes.

Why is this so much different than us? I mean, back in Jesus' day they didn't speak English, yet we take it for granted that the divine spirit lead men to write the Bible in English just for us to read and study? If this is true, then why can't the same spirit work in the Hip Hop world to pull these people out of that world and into Christ's hands?


Closed mindedness will be a big downfall I think for the "Church". It doesn't matter which church, or denomination you are talking about.

Being closeminded and not believing in the power of the Holy Spirit is a sad thing to me.


Jamie

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Allk the knit-picking aside, I heard a concept this morning that hit home and I think applies here.
"So many people outside the church view Christians as mandating a list of things one cant and shouldnt do instead of promoting Christ's personhood first. The rest will fall in line. You really think a pimp on the street is going to open up a KJV 1611 and understand it? And the next version of the KJV was just a modern translation from that one, and so on and so on. Then there are the paraphrases.

Paul said he became "all things to all people, so that by all means" some might be saved.

I don't think a pimp off the street, or any lost person, for that matter is going to pick up any Bible and understand and accept it regardless of the version unless God draws him to himself and regenerates his totally depraved mind. It is not about the Bible version or the method. It is about man's sin and God's grace.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Attributing the works of the flesh, the works of the devil, the works of the world to the Holy Spirit is even sadder...

As a matter of fact, it's blasphemy.

 

[TaterTot]

Exactly. I was "drawn" in to church initially by a hotdog party. Many groups argue that we shouldn't have to draw people in. Well, it got me to church, and the Holy Spirit got a hold of me once my belly was full and I sat there listening.
The Holy Spirit uses anything He wants to. There are Bibles of ALL sorts - camouflage ones for the military, and so on. God uses many things to get our attention, and I just cannot say that He wouldnt use this book to reach the hip-hop generation.

 

[LeBuick]

We cannot draw people to Christ using worldly means such as hip-hop, entertainment, etc.. .

Do you open the doors to discipleship at a musical? I don't but I have been to many musicals and have been asked to extend the invitation. I will always take at least 5 minutes to go by the cross. This is as you say, entertainment, a musical if you will and not a means of sending the message of salvation. The Bible makes it clear that preaching is the only vehicle. "How can they hear..." As long as it is done in the name of the LORD then I know there is joy in heaven.

As JB and JD both stated, the Holy Spirit must do the drawing. If you bring people into the church using the world, then it is still the world that is holding those people.

We must preach Christ, we must preach the cross; the death, burial, and resurrection..

If you leave those two thoughts as they are then you are correct, it would be a failure. Also, even if you preach them in and don't start teaching the ways of rightousness you will be an equal failure.

I believe in a two fold commission, one says preach and the other says teach. Once you preach the cross and bring them into the fold, it is important that you move beyond the cross and teach discipleship. Each Sunday, we should be challenging our people to study the word, we need to challenge them to turn the other cheek, treat others as they want to be treated, we need to encourage them to do a little better in their walk with Christ.

It may be a shock to you, but God is not interested in us building a church where tens, hundreds, or even thousands attend if the church is relying on the world to draw others. It is a stench in God's nostrils. Nothing but works salvation is shown in such a church..

I think you are getting to pationate toward your point and it's causing you to say things you don't mean. You have put yourself in the place of telling the rest of us what is a stench to GOD or not. You think any of the songs we current sing were sung in David, Paul or even Jesus day? We worship GOD in spirit and in truth.

History of the Bible comfirmed GOD is a jealous GOD and won't have us worshipping any other GOD. He also demands are obedience. As long as they don't begin worshipping hip-hop, making it their GOD or making it their only understanding of their GOD, Heaven will welcome the praise. These young folks love the lord and his Church which is very evident when they do devotion every 3rd Sunday.

Move away from the cross? The preaching of the cross is the power of God for whom? Check your Bible. "Unto us which ARE saved". Near the Cross is a perfectly scriptural song. Notice it says "JESUS keep me near the cross". Great doctrine. ..

The scriptures that are being quoted are using the word cross in place of the Gospel. We know you can't just hang Jesus on the cross and leave him there. That is not what Paul is saying. If Christ be not risen from the dead ...

Once one has received the gospel, then what? You want members like the guy on O' Brother where art thou? "The preacher said all my sins have been washed away". It is then our job, no, our duty to equip the saints for the spiritual warfare they will encounter in their daily life. Any ignorant saint you have in your fold is a weak link in your circle of fellowship. In this way I encourage even my young people to live for Jesus and not be ashamed to represent His kingdom.

 

[Gib]

Is everyone who lives in the ghetto or hood and speaks the "lingo" have to be a balla, gangsta, playa, pimpa...I mean pimp?

 

[TaterTot]

SFIC, just for clarification here before I get upset, lol, Who are you calling blasphemous?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Anyone who attributes the works of the flesh, the works of the devil, the works of the world to the Holy Spirit is blasphemous. And it is not me calling them that, it is the very Word of God that judges them as such.

 

[LeBuick]

Exactly. I was "drawn" in to church initially by a hotdog party. Many groups argue that we shouldn't have to draw people in. Well, it got me to church, and the Holy Spirit got a hold of me once my belly was full and I sat there listening.
The Holy Spirit uses anything He wants to. There are Bibles of ALL sorts - camouflage ones for the military, and so on. God uses many things to get our attention, and I just cannot say that He wouldnt use this book to reach the hip-hop generation.

Preach on my Sister, Preach on!

I have a member that was taking BBQ turkey necks and bread to the homeless. We ended up having to section off a few pews in the back because some of my "saved" members didn't want to sit next to them. She now heads my Mission and revealed something to me one night, she knew a lot of those homeless because she was once one of them.

 

[TaterTot]

(shakes head in total dismay) Why must we be divided on every issue? SFIC, you keep winning the lost your way and I will keep on my way, and at least we will be winning the lost, which is what its all about.