Homosexuality and Scripture

HRHema, I was a hospital chaplain. There isn't a horror story you can name that I haven't seen first hand, and I cannot count the number of dying AIDS victims whose hands I held as they were fighting for their last breaths.

Yes, the behaviour of some homosexual persons has devastated families. See also the behavior of heterosexual persons. Those behaviors are not inherent to homosexuality just like they are not inherent to heterosexuality.

Joshua

 

EVERYONE...gay or straight...has a lifestyle. We choose the type of lifestyle we life. Worldly/Holy, Flesh/Spirit, For God/Against God,
Following Jesus/Not following Jesus, Self indulgent/Self sacrificing.

I know many people who have a tendency or leaning toward homosexuality. What would be referred to as their sexual orientation. There are also those who lean and have a tendency toward heterosexuality. Again, referred to as sexual orientation. Aside from the sexual, there are other orientation or tendencies that we all have.

Is God powerless to help us overcome our leanings?
NO! Can we live out a godly life as a Christian and still struggle with these tendencies and yet not be overcome by them? YES!

Someones "orientation" towards a behavior does not lock them into a particular lifestyle. Our leanings are to be brought under the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Our choice is whether we choose to live a life that is a testimony of the saving grace and regeneration of the Lord.

Sorry, but homosexuals choose a lifestyle that spits in the face of God allowing their orientations to rule them.

suzanne

 

EVERYONE...gay or straight...has a lifestyle. We choose the type of lifestyle we life. Worldly/Holy, Flesh/Spirit, For God/Against God,
Following Jesus/Not following Jesus, Self indulgent/Self sacrificing.

I know many people who have a tendency or leaning toward homosexuality. What would be referred to as their sexual orientation. There are also those who lean and have a tendency toward heterosexuality. Again, referred to as sexual orientation. Aside from the sexual, there are other orientation or tendencies that we all have.

Is God powerless to help us overcome our leanings?
NO! Can we live out a godly life as a Christian and still struggle with these tendencies and yet not be overcome by them? YES!

Someones "orientation" towards a behavior does not lock them into a particular lifestyle. Our leanings are to be brought under the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Our choice is whether we choose to live a life that is a testimony of the saving grace and regeneration of the Lord.

Sorry, but homosexuals choose a lifestyle that spits in the face of God allowing their orientations to rule them.

suzanne</font>[/QUOTE]If you are saying that you have chosen to live a heterosexual lifestyle, then what other sexual orientation have you decided to give up?

 

Yes, I'm saying I've chosen to live a heterosexual lifestyle. I CHOOSE to stay away from people or places that would prey on my weaknesses. I CHOOSE to hold my tongue and not gossip. I CHOOSE to be truthful. I CHOOSE to serve others even when I don't feel like it. I CHOOSE to obey God even when I don't understand why.

There are many, many people who choose not indulge in tendencies and leanings that are clearing spoken of in scripture. Through the grace and mercy of the Lord there are many, many people who realize their own need for a Savior and REPENT AND TURN from sin to become a NEW CREATION.

You, my friend, have been given some very good background, scripture and experiences from others, your own intellectualizm is clouding your sight. Well, maybe that spirit guide you keep talking about (and I'm not speaking of the Holy Spirit) is taking you down the wrong road.

There are gays out there who would like to live in a different way, who want off the roller coaster, but if all they hear is that they were born that way and there is nothing to be done about it, what hope do they have?

suzanne

 

quote by Post it:

"Only the Holy Spirit will place in a person's heart what sin is for that person...There is no sin for a married homosexual"

Hi I'm a Christian named 'Kill 'em' all'. I have a natural inclination to hide in parks late at night, bash people to death and nick of with their stuff. Unfortunately the Holy Spirit hasn't convicted me that this is a sin, so for me its just a logical and natural thing to do and an enjoyable past time.

Oh come on is anyone going to buy that and express sympathy.

Read Romans chapter 1. Especially the end. Its clear and simple.

vs 27 "Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and recieving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due".

Furthermore the Holy Spirit will convict a homosexual that this is a sin and give him power to overcome the temptations of his former lifestyle if he has accepted Christ as his Saviour. We all have received power to gladly give up our former lifestyles and progressively become more Godly, so why not they; have they special priviliges or are they an exception because they are homosexuals that they are exempt in some special way to submitt themselves to God so that He will do the all powerful sanctifying work. God gave them over to a debased mind as it says in Romans chp 1 and likewise can heal their minds of this spiritual sickness.

 

The Gay community has one of the highest rates of suicide in the nation, more so among males.

The excuse used to be because of the persecution they received from society. Now that society has now accepted them what is the excuse?

The REASON is that God has put inside every man and woman basic instincts of right and wrong. Paul even alluded to this in his writings when he talked about no one having any excuse to not believe in God.

In dealing with Gays in a past ministry the majority of them were basically created this way not by birth or by God but by their upbringing.
They had domineering mothers and uncaring Dads who gave them no attention. The mothers basically made sissies out of them. Then you had those raised by women only so they had absolutely no male role models to model after so all they knew was how to be a woman. The mothers etc basically raised them to be effeminate. Yet all of this is behaviour issues.

Many of the males told me that they turned to having sex with men because they had been denied the basic male bonding they needed growing up so they were led by another homosexual into the lifestyle being promised this would fulfill the emptiness they felt but then find themselves trapped in a lifestyle that is self destructive.

This is not an appropriate place to describe this but I have spoken to a medical doctor who has dealt with Gay men and he told me that these men suffer terribly when they get older because of their lifestyle. He was not talking about aids or any other sexually transmitted disease.

No one on this thread will ever convince Post-it and Joshua they are wrong. Only God can do that and he does have ways of doing that.

 

You left out the other part that was included with that sin reference post, which was Jesus' Great Command that we love one another. Beathing people in the park would violate the Great Command, thus be a sin.

 

I will agree with the doctor comment you made, it can be unhealthy. However, medical problems will occur with any given number of people as they age, an we all accept it as a fact of life.

I will agree that the suicide rate is high, but from what cause? Their families usually turn on them. They stop the Love and Acceptance. If mom and dads did this to any child at the numbers it is being done to the homosexuals then you would see a higher suicide rate in this group. When one is not loved by anyone, depression is the norm. Suicide is the answer. They don't kill themselves because they ran out of bars, or lovers. Those that find a mate don't suffer from a higher suicide rate.

If they had someone who loved them and would support them as "normal people", and they were encouraged to settle down with one mate, just like we do our hetero kids, then we wouldn't see anymore problems with this group than with the hetero group. Good strong committed relationships is what we need to develop with both groups.

The Church has created all the problems you have mentioned in your various posts with the exception of the medical one. Our attitude has pushed this minority into the exact box we put them in. We are responsible and will have to answer to God when our turn at bat comes up.

So before you continue building this evil box with your posts, think about it. You are taking innocent lives with each nail you hammer in this box of contempt.

 

Ten years ago I would have thought (Upon reading "Post-it's" statement) that this would have been an "Presbyterian Only" bulletin board (although no insult to MOST Presbyterians that is one denomination that had to split over this very issue), But NOT a "Baptist Only" board.

Folks, I am so glad to see so many good Christians standing up to Post-It. We are indeed looking at tough times ahead as Christians become "hatemongers" because they don't accept sin as a way of life and "universalism" (you can reach god through any religion including Islam) is running rampant in our once great nation.

As people like Post-It enter into Christian ranks they make "real" Christians look bad because of their beliefs. This is the future of Christianity and the world. This is also Satan's way of destroying our witness. I know----I am speaking to the choir in most cases, but as Jesus says: The world will hate us.

Yes, Post-it, you are a VERY scarey man, but God is stronger than Satan. Someday, look towards the Lord and rid yourself of your evil beliefs.

I know this sounds tough, but if we are going to be good Christians we have to stand upon what we believe.

 

I, for one, get disgusted seeing threads with double-digit page numbers, on abortion and homosexuality. Verses are ignored, and truth called lies. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him accept scripture.

I have grown weary of standing up to this. What's the point ? The ideas are preposterous. The heresy is obvious.

Don't yer head git sore after smashin it ?

 

No, it is people who persecute the innocent, and who make devils out of groups of citizens that destroy our witness. For the Glory of God.

The following is an excerpt from an earlier alleged evil group who's persecution also helped destroy our witness. Time... Early America...

Then four other ministers of Boston and one of Salem, as superstitious as himself, joined Rev. Mather, and they spent a whole day in the house of the "afflicted" in fasting and prayer, the result of which was the "delivery" of one of the family from the power of the witch. This was sufficient proof for the minds of the ministers that there must be a witch in the case, and these deluded clergymen prosecuted the ignorant Irish woman as such. She was bewildered before the court, and spoke sometimes in her native Irish language, which nobody could understand, and which her accusers and judges construed into involuntary confession. Mather and his clerical associates had the satisfaction of seeing the poor old Irish woman hanged as a witch, "for the glory of God."

[ September 21, 2002, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

Post-It, your response isn't even worth a response, but here goes:

You, my friend are wrong.

Jesus did not tolerate sin either--he only tolerated those who repented and tried to sin no more.

The Bible is all too clear about homosexuality and the reason two genders were created.

Bringing in an "extreme" example of abuse by a preacher who was obviously wrong in his beliefs does not make all Christians "witch hunters". Belief that homosexuality is a sin, along with murder, adultry, fornication, lying, stealing, etc. does not make one a "witch-hunter", either.

As I said, you are wrong, pal. ;)

Any further discussion with you is futile.

[ September 21, 2002, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Phillip ]

 

I agree!!
More than once I've thought about asking where do you draw the line between fruitful testimony and vain discussions and about casting pearls before swine. There is obvious rebellion in the responses in regards to these topics and sometimes it seems that discussion takes place just for the sake of arguement.

suzanne

 

I agree!!
More than once I've thought about asking where do you draw the line between fruitful testimony and vain discussions and about casting pearls before swine. There is obvious rebellion in the responses in regards to these topics and sometimes it seems that discussion takes place just for the sake of arguement.

suzanne</font>[/QUOTE]You beat me to it! :D Since following post it's two main topics, homosexuality and abortion, I get the feeling that he just likes to debate these two and after countless post against him on these two, he still goes in only one direction, and it is the wrong one. I think he actually enjoys it and is far from witnessing as a Christian should. I often wonder why a Baptist since 1968 would even think as he does. But you are right, as all the others are!

God Bless.........Alex

 

Alex, you might want to look at the larger baptist world beyond the boundaries of fundamentalism. Folks like Bill Leonard and Stand Hastey - prominent baptists who have taken strong stands affirming homosexuality.

Joshua

 

It doesn't matter what big name baptist preacher affirms homosexuality. The Book is against it, so it should end there.

However, I realize you don't believe in an inerrant, infallible, preserved Word of God. So when you start name dropping I am not surprised.

And, FYI, this is not an ad hominem, I am just stating truthfully Rev.'s position, which clearly does not rest on the authority of scripture alone.

SoCM

 

Alex, you might want to look at the larger baptist world beyond the boundaries of fundamentalism. Folks like Bill Leonard and Stand Hastey - prominent baptists who have taken strong stands affirming homosexuality.

Joshua</font>[/QUOTE]Rev. Joshua, I sincerely hope as a minister that you are not so liberal to believe in homosexuality!!?? Although, not a Baptist I thought Jimmy Swaggart was a Bible believing preacher.. I don't care HOW BIG a pastor is, if he does not follow God's Holy Word, then he is simply WRONG. No question or argument to be made. . .

Obviously, liberals want to throw out the rest of the Old Testament along with Genesis 1 through 11. Am I blind or does God lay down the law through Moses in Leviticus 18:22 through 30. Or do liberals teach that is misinterpreted or does not hold water today? Funny, right after verse 22, verse 23 mentions man sleeping with animals--seemingly putting it in about the same category. Funny, he goes on to say that these abominations defile not only "yourselves", but all the natioins and the land. Verse 25 goes on to say "And the land is defiled; therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants."

I have always been under the impression that Jesus was sent to earth to fulfill the law -- not to destroy it. If so, why would he change his mind on homosexuality being an abomination?

Now, back to the original argument--do not twist this around to hatred of homosexuals. It is simply a sin like murder, fornication and stealing--and any Christian that advocates such a lifestyle should be banned from a truly Baptist site.

By the way, I am not fundamentalist, I am from the largest group of Baptists in the United States--Southern Baptist--and although we have bad apples in our flock, the majority feel that a pastor who advocates homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle would be gently and swiftly removed from his leadership.

 

Hello all, I have been visiting this board for a while now and have not been moved to speak until now. I cannot believe that people who say they are followers of the God of all creation, who gave to us the bible as a written revelation of His will for us, and who revealed Himself to us in the person of Jesus Christ, would take such stands against the Word to replace them with the "vain imaginations" of men. These words of scripture immediately come to mind:

Matthew 18:15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Titus 3:9But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject; 11Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Do we say to the drunkard, "since you have this feeling that you must drink, it is OK, it is not a sin"? Do we say to the pyromanic, "since you can't help yourself and you feel that you must set fires, it is OK, it is not a sin"? Do we say to the adulterer, fornicator, glutton, liar, boaster, gambler, "since you feel that what you are doing is not a sin, then for you it is not a sin"? Of course, we don't. Why, then, do we then say to the homosexual, "since you have these feelings, go ahead, it is not a sin"?

I believe what is happening is there are people who, wanting to be accepted of men, come preaching another gospel to soothe the itching ears of their congregations. Instead of kindly helping people remain in their sins, we must kindly help people see the sin that they are in and lovingly guide them to the Savior who will release them from their bondage. Contrary to the complaints that we who seek to do just that are only pushing people away from Christ, we are, in fact, the ones who are helping all who will come, to Christ. If the Baptist church does not stand on the Word of God alone, we will go the way of the Catholic church replacing scripture with the changable word of man. If you don't love your brother enough to help them, you don't love your brother. To whom much is given (your salvation), much is required (telling people the Gospel, letting the chips fall where they may, God is in control). I fear that time that I'll be standing before Jesus giving an account of my life to Him. What if He points over to that other place, across the wide gulf that nobody can cross, and He says to me, "your brother, whom I told you to witness to, and you didn't, is over there... tell me why..."
...John 15

 

Amen, Brother JamesJ. You just said what I have been trying to get out rather unsuccessfully all along. It is simply a "sin" like all other sins and this does not mean that we hate homosexuals any more than we do drunks--we should do our best to bring them to salvation; but, to allow a "so-called" member of Christianity and the Baptist faith to "condone" the lifestyle simply says that we have abandoned our reliance on the Word of God as the final answer to all moral questions.

 

Abiyah and Susanne,

I can't believe my ears either over Post-it's posts! Have mercy!
But you know what I figure--his posts are too "wack-o" to be truthful! He's making it up just to ruffle our feathers and get our blood pressure up! He's probably a Billy Graham star student over at the Cove--but loves to be irritating--wonder what and how he "bum-foodles" his wife and kids??

Your friend,
Blackbird