If that is what God has called you to do, then "yes." Matthew 8:21-22, Luke 9:59-62, and Luke 14:26 say quite clearly that the God's call comes before children, wives, mothers, and fathers.
That we are. Our higher call though - is for Christ.
Yes. An old friend of mine lost a loved one in Yemen when the Christians were killed in Yemen some months ago.
He did give up his life for the non-believers. Men have risked their lives for non-believers. Do you just not feel comfortable in asking the question?
What is more important to you: the salvation of the aforementioned person or your own life?
Honest (but perhaps offensive) question:
Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by ScottEmerson, Jul 2, 2003.
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And a further question: What kind of stands do you take now against homosexuality? What kind of fruits do you see? Are people being saved because of your testimony?
And one more: Where is the love in doing so?
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What I do to help all sinners (homosexual or not) is pray for them, preach the word, and share the good news of freedom through Christ with them.[/quote]
Do you go out of your way to show them Christian love?
Joseph Botwinick [/QB][/QUOTE] -
My church and another church held our own youth camp this year. We had about 130 students or so there. One of the girls in 7th grade came. She was raised Catholic, but was not saved. She had been asking questions to some of the other girls, and they told me about it. On Thursday, I sat down with her for about forty-five minutes and shared the gospel with her. She knew what she needed to do, but there was something holding her back. She knew what would happen (or believed she did) when she got home.
For the rest of the night, God was working on her, and me as well. It continued through the day. She spent a lot of time quiet, sitting by herself, contemplating the decision to abandon everything and follow Christ. She knew that salvation isn't about a specific prayer - it is about a surrendering of everything to place Christ as Lord of her life. My heart was burdened for her all day.
That night, the students were together and the adults were together, and I was just burdened to lead the adults in prayer. It was at that time that the Spirit of God just began working, and I began weeping and praying as I had never done before. It was right at that time that I understood exactly what Paul meant when he wrote what he did in Romans 9.
God is awesome in what he does. In what can only be seen as a miracle, at the same time I was praying, and unbeknownst to me, she was praying with a friend of hers to accept Christ. She came in a few minutes later with tears of joy in her eyes, came and gave me a big hug, told me what happened, and we just stood there crying.
That feeling comes and goes every now and then with lost people who don't know Christ, but not as often as I think it should. The feeling happened again when an eighth grader began talking to me about salvation and wanting to know what it took to be a Christian a few weeks ago. I felt the pain of the realization that this person, if she didn't make a decision to follow Christ, would spend eternity apart from me.
That said, and as embarrassed as I am to say, my answer would be "no." So far, I haven't felt like Paul did around strangers or anyone with whom I haven't built a relationship. I love my students in my ministry so much that it hurts sometime when I realize that some of them are not saved. That is the kind of love that I want to develop for all people, no matter who they are, what they have done - because that is the way Christ felt for people. That is the way he felt for me.
People can run circles around the question, and dodge it as much as possible, but when it comes down to it, I see so often on this board that there is more hatred and disdain for people because of what they have done or who they are than there is unconditional love. That is so against what we have been taught. The only people that Jesus pointed fingers at and yelled about their specific sins were the Pharisees - the religious leaders of their day. I wonder why we've lost that and aare consumed with preaching AGAINST sin instead of preaching WITH love to an undying world who grows alienated from a religion that does more telling them how bad they are instead of how awesome Jesus Christ is.
Bonhoeffer, in "Cost of Discipleship," wrote, "When Jesus calls a man, he bids him come and die." -
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Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
This question was posed first by Edwin McManus:
Would you be willing to lay down your life for a cross-dressing homosexual to come to Christ?
Click to expand...
Okay, jest aside, we're called to have love in a manner in which we would lay down our lives for our friends, regardless of whether or not they might come to christ, or already be with christ. I would lay down my life for any of you on the board. But since you are all my friends, I also know that no one here abould abuse that type of love from anyone else. -
Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
[qb] That feeling comes and goes every now and then with lost people who don't know Christ, but not as often as I think it should. The feeling happened again when an eighth grader began talking to me about salvation and wanting to know what it took to be a Christian a few weeks ago. I felt the pain of the realization that this person, if she didn't make a decision to follow Christ, would spend eternity apart from me.Click to expand...
Joseph BotwinickClick to expand... -
Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
QUOTE]The sad part of this is that it seems to me that she prayed the prayer, not really as a choice for Christ, but rather, so she wouldn't spend eternity apart from you. I certainly hope that wasn't the emotional experience used to manipulate her into praying a prayer. Only God knows if she was sincere. I certainly hope and pray that she was.
Joseph Botwinick [/QB]Click to expand...
Question me all you want, but what in the world gives you the right to judge a decision of a teenager to follow Christ? Like I said, I don't lead teenagers in this ABC and BANG! You're saved. That's not what salvation is according to the Bible. Salvation occurs only when a person is willing to sacrifice everything and place Christ as Lord in his or her life. That's what salvation is - not a prayer.
She didn't become a Christian for me at all. I didn't come up in the conversation at all. What we talked about was how God was working in her life, calling her to come to Him.
If you've never met her (as you haven't) then leave your demeaning and self-assured comments to yourself, please. -
Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
I am not called to die for their salvation.Click to expand...
What I do to help all sinners (homosexual or not) is pray for them, preach the word, and share the good news of freedom through Christ with them.[/quote]
Do you go out of your way to show them Christian love?[/QUOTE]
If by that you mean, do I go out of my way to make them feel better about their sin, then no. And neither did Jesus. If by that you mean do I treat them as friends, pray for them, and share the Gospel with them calling them to repent, then yes. And so did Jesus.
If they are caught in the sinful lifestyle of Homosexuality, I tell them so.Click to expand...
The Holy Spirit working through the preaching of the Word of God.
I love the sinner and hate the sin. However, loving the sinner doesn't mean candy coating the sin in order to make them feel better about going to Hell.Click to expand...
I disagree. We live in a world where the so-called "Christian" church is all too quick to wink at sin and make people feel better about their sins while they go to Hell.
Joseph Botwinick -
Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
For me, when I was saved, it wasn't until I realized how evil and bad and sinful I was that I realized how great God was and what a miracle it was that God broke through my sin and saved me.Click to expand...
Too many churches today have thrown away the message of the Bible for feel good emotional experiences so that lost people can feel good about their sins.Click to expand...
If only God had been that way for Annanias and Saphira. You will reap what you sow. God will not be mocked. You need to really go back and read the Bible. We are in big trouble if all we really want is for a false prohet to tickle our ears.Click to expand...
Your comments remind me of the Israeli King who told God's prophet, Amos the following:
“Do not prophecy against Israel, and stop preaching against the house of Isaac” (Amos 7:16).Click to expand...
God had a message for Israel then, and I believe it is still relevant today:
“Woe to you who are complacent in Zion, and to you who feel secure on Mount Samaria, you notable men of the foremost nation, to whom the people of Israel come! Go to Calneh and look at it; go from there to great Hamath, and then go down to Gath in Phillistia. Are they better off than your two kingdoms? Is their land larger than yours? You put off the evil day and bring near a reign of terror. You lie on beds inlaid with ivory and lounge on your couches. You dine on choice lambs and fattened calves. You strum away on your harps like David and improvise on musical instruments. You drink wine by the bowlful and use the finest lotions, BUT YOU DO NOT GRIEVE OVER THE RUIN OF JOSEPH. Therefore you will be among the first to go into exile; your feasting and lounging will end” (Amos 6:1-7).Click to expand...
Tell me, Joseph, what do you know about the love of Christ. How is it applicable in your life? -
Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
QUOTE]She didn't become a Christian for me at all. I didn't come up in the conversation at all. What we talked about was how God was working in her life, calling her to come to Him.
If you've never met her (as you haven't) then leave your demeaning and self-assured comments to yourself, please.Click to expand...
"I felt the pain of the realization that this person, if she didn't make a decision to follow Christ, would spend eternity apart from me."
So, either you manipulated this girl into making a decision based on wanting to be with you, or else you misrepresented the facts. Which is it?
Joseph BotwinickClick to expand... -
Scott,
I have already told you how I show the love of Christ. You are teaching false doctrine by saying we should not focus on preaching against sin. This is the spirit of Anti-Christ. I will pray for you and hope that God will open your eyes to the truth. But, until then, I am finished discussing this with you as your heart is hard right now and you are unwilling to see the truth.
Joseph Botwinick -
Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Didn't say you were. It is not a matter of providing salvation. Is your life more important than the salvation of this person?Click to expand...
If by that you mean, do I go out of my way to make them feel better about their sin, then no. And neither did Jesus. If by that you mean do I treat them as friends, pray for them, and share the Gospel with them calling them to repent, then yes. And so did Jesus.Click to expand...
The Holy Spirit working through the preaching of the Word of God.Click to expand...
I disagree. We live in a world where the so-called "Christian" church is all too quick to wink at sin and make people feel better about their sins while they go to Hell.Click to expand... -
Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
I am certainly glad to hear this. However, this statement contradicts yourself and shows that you didn't give an accurate representation of what happened because you said in your previous post:
"I felt the pain of the realization that this person, if she didn't make a decision to follow Christ, would spend eternity apart from me."
So, either you manipulated this girl into making a decision based on wanting to be with you, or else you misrepresented the facts. Which is it?
Joseph Botwinick [/QB]Click to expand... -
Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
Scott,
I have already told you how I show the love of Christ. You are teaching false doctrine by saying we should not focus on preaching against sin. This is the spirit of Anti-Christ. I will pray for you and hope that God will open your eyes to the truth. But, until then, I am finished discussing this with you as your heart is hard right now and you are unwilling to see the truth.
Joseph BotwinickClick to expand...
Do you always call someone an anti-Christ when you don't agree with them?
Perhaps it is not my heart that is hard here?
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