The passage in question:
"Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead."
How can God "command", that "all men everywhere repent"? Would not such a "command" require that God has made it indeed possible for "all men everywhere" to have been atoned for in the death of Jesus Christ? To say that this refers to the "elect", is nonsense. For, why would God need to "command" that the "elect" repent, as there is no doubt that if they were "elect" in the first place, they would gladly repent.Also, it is clear that the "all men everywhere" are the same as "the world", used in the same verse. It should be noted, that the Greek for "world" is NOT "kosmos", which the Calvinist's are all to fond of twisting its meaning to refer to the "elect", as they do in John 3:16; but rather, it is the Greek "oikoumene", which, according to the Greek Lexicon by Ardnt and Gingrich, means: " world in the sense of its inhabitants, human-kind Ac 17:31" (page 564)
I say again, it is impossible for God to command that the whole of "human-kind" repents, if indeed Jesus only died for the "elect" Surley, once again the Bible shatters the myth of "Limited Atonement"
How can God command all men everywhere to repent?
Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by icthus, Apr 10, 2005.
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Sorry, the passage is from Acts 17:30-31
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Great Post Icthus!
I am dumbfounded that there are those who actually believe that Paul is so double-minded as to support opposing doctrines.
Being blinded as they are by their own literal interpretation of select scriptures they claim support from, they overlook the truth completely.
I suppose we could add this inconsistancy to the list of other faulty attributes associated with Calvinism. -
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Whatever,
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Wes, you make this too easy. Think before you speak. It would save you from this kind of silly error. -
Wes, you make this too easy. Think before you speak. It would save you from this kind of silly error. </font>[/QUOTE]OK Larry, so why don't you deal with my OP? -
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Wes, you make this too easy. Think before you speak. It would save you from this kind of silly error. </font>[/QUOTE]Is obedience conformity? Then it must be true that obedient man is conforming to God. Conformity to God is well within "the image" is it not?
About babes, If they were not able to obey they would not be human. Babes are not able to jump through hoops either, Babes are not able to govern entire nations either, that is why the don't run in elections while in the womb!
Let's keep this sane Larry. We are talking about mature human beings being able to obey God because mature human beings have all the tools and authorities to use them that God intended for man to have.
Why did Abraham leave Ur? He obeyed God!
Why did Abraham offer up Isaac in sacrifice to God? Because Abraham obeyed God!
Why did Noah build the Ark? He obeyed God!
Why did MOSES return to Egypt? He obeyed God!
Why did Jesus die on the Cross? He obeyed the Father.
Why did the Apostles follow Jesus? They obeyed Jesus.
Why did Nehemiah rebuild the walls of Jerusalem? He obeyed God.
Yes, I could continue the list, but You get the point.
Now you should be able to tell from scripture whether or not those I mentioned save for Jesus, were regenerated prior to belief, and by what or whom. -
Let's get back to the OP. -
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Pastor Larry,
Romans 1:20-21 say, "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are CLEARLY SEEN, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so they are without excuse: Because that, when they KNEW God, they glorified him NOT as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."
This passage telling us, God did revealed his creation things to us, that we can see them very clearly. Athiests saying there is no God. BUT, they KNEW there is God, they won't honor God, they are being pride theirselves.
God does not creat us as robot. God made us in his own image as soul, spirit, and body. God did give us the mind to making decision. Yes, of course, God gives us have ability to make decisions. If suppose God creates us a robot, then we are 'thing' have NO brain, then NO making decison, huh? We are not God's puppet or robot. God gives us the freewill to make decision. Who made Adam to ate fruit? Eve? No. Satan? No. God? No. Who made Adam to eat the fruit? Adam, himself! Obivous, he have own freewill decision to disobey God. Before Adam fell, God EXPECTED Adam to obey him, not to eat fruit. God does not force Adam do NOT fruit. God ALLOWS Adam to make his own decision to obey God or not to obey. Why? Because God was testing on Adam. God already know Adam will fell into sin. This lesson teaching us, we all do have freewill decision, you cannot deny that we all have freewill decision.
I ask you a question, why does God created our brains? What is the purpose that we all have brain? What if suppose we do not have brain, how can we making our decision? Think about it.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen! -
To Calvinists:
Please explain to us, what the definition of 'repent' and 'believe' mean?
How does the consequence or result comes include repent and believe from?
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen! -
I feel that some people here strain at a gnat and yet swallow a whole camel. The entire NT is rife with foreordination (prophecy), explanation of the inability of man and (indeed!) the impossibility to be saved apart from God, the election of the saints, and the attaining unto life eternal by those saints. I may reconcile this small passage with the vast body of scripture that agrees with the Calvinist interpretation, but I cannot bring myself to thrust the remainder of scripture into the fire to accept this interpretation.
Here is just one example that reconciles your 'problem' with the rest of scripture.
http://www.mslick.com/desireall.htm -
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I understand that there is a distinction between universal atonement and universal salvation- but if you will be consistant with your position universal atonement is actually WORSE than universal salvation. In universalism, all men died with Christ on the cross and all men will be saved with him someday. In universal atonement- all men died with Christ on the cross but some of those will actually go to hell! I would rather you'd be a universalist!
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Perhaps the Holy Spirit erred in showing me that universal atonement was wrong? He was the only one that convinced me of this as I read the NT through twice last fall. I hadn't yet read a book on Calvinism OR Arminianism at that point. It's hard to overlook John 10 and other such passages. Please pray for me brother- I always appreciate it. But though I had to be wrong then or now (having opposite beliefs) I believe I was wrong before when I believed in universal atonement. To be blunt- I was emotional and unlearned.
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