As Arms accuse cals of being arrogant by assuming that we kinow that God has made us one of His elect in Christ...
On what basis do Arminians know they are the elect of God than?
How do Arminians KNOW They are the Elect of God?
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Yeshua1, Oct 28, 2013.
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The problem for Calvinists is that they cannot truly know Jesus died for them. Oh, they can "hope" he died for them, but if Limited Atonement is true, then it is impossible for any person to know Jesus died for them.
And how do you have faith in a maybe????
How do you have faith in a perhaps????
You can't. And it is a fact that Calvinists suffer from lack of assurance because of this very doctrine.
This writer is a Calvinist who often counsels other Calvinists who have serious problems with doubt. This man has never had a call from an Arminian or a non-Cal. Why? Because Arminians and non-Cals KNOW Jesus died for them. Calvinists do not.
A non-Cal knows that Jesus died for him and can place his complete trust in this scriptural truth.
A Calvinist cannot possibly know this, because they believe Jesus only died for some men, and they do not know who these men are, including themselves. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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I have yet to see here someone who is either arminian or non cal explain just why they received Jesus and their neighbor didn;t who heard same message in church, as their answer HAS to be because i was smarter, better eyc man centered! -
Calvinism teaches that Jesus only died for some persons. Calvinists freely confess this all the time.
This is simple, a child could easily understand, so perhaps you can too. If Jesus did not die for everyone, then you have no idea if he died for you. You cannot possibly know that, it is impossible.
Now, you can convince yourself you are one of the elect that Jesus died for, and if you are lucky you could be correct. But it is just as probable, NO, more probable that you are one of the billions of unfortunate people Jesus did not die for. Oh, you may believe you are elect, but on judgment day you will be surprised to find yourself cast out.
What is comical, is that when it really comes down to it, Calvinists are doing the very thing they accuse non-Cals of doing, CHOOSING THEMSELVES. You think because you have convinced yourself you are elect that that makes it so.
Just because you believe something does not make it so. You could believe a defective parachute is safe and jump out of an airplane with it, and you will fall to your death.
Biblicist- Here I am Jesus, I am all yours
Jesus- No you are not, I never knew you, I never chose you.
Biblicist- Yes you did, I am one of the elect.
Jesus- No you are not, I never chose you, and I did not die for you. I only died for some men, and you were not one of them.
Biblicist- But I believed you did die for me.
Jesus- You were mistaken, now depart from me. -
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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If you believe Jesus only died for some men, then you have no idea if Jesus died for you.
Saving faith is depending on Jesus's death and resurrection to save you. You have no idea if Jesus died for you and rose for you, so how can you possibly have faith in this? You can't. That is why that Calvinist wrote that article. His answer is horrible, he simply tells folks not to worry about it. Right.
But truth be told, that is the only answer he can give, he doesn't even know if he is elect. So, he just puts it out of his mind.
Actually, pretty good advice. My advice to all Calvinists is eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow you die. -
Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Question 2; Simple, believing in Christ as our Lord and Savior. -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
If you are depending upon saying a correct prayer at one time in your life, or walking an aisle and being led like a parrot to repeat after me as proof of your salvation you are as lost now as you were before you said those magical words. Where there is no NEW CREATURE there is no salvation regardless of what you said, heard or prayed.
You have nothing to base your salvation upon but a memory of saying something corretly. I have an experience of transforming power along with the right words and that power never ceased and the right words never ceased to be my continuing expression. I know I am saved because it was a SUPERNATURAL experienc that TRANSFORMED me into a new creation, with a new want to, new desires and willingness to obey Christ. That power continues within me until this very day and will till I go to be with the Lord in glory. That is more than the "gospel only" in mere words (1 Thes. 1:4-5). -
Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Jesus trusted his Father to the very death. He was willing to die on the cross trusting and believing God would raise him from the dead as he promised. This is saving faith. A person can know when they have committed their soul to Jesus and are depending on his work alone on the cross to save them.
You on the other hand look to your works to prove to yourself you are the elect. You are like those persons in Matthew 7 who claimed they prophesied in Jesus's name, and cast out devils in his name, and did many "wonderful works" in his name.
The worst part is, you do not even know if Jesus died for you. But in your case that is OK, because you are so full of yourself that you have utterly convinced yourself that you are the elect. How could Jesus survive without you?
As another poster said, HUBRIS.
Paul told the Corinthians that Jesus died for OUR sins.
John also said Jesus was the propitiation for our sins, and not ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. He must have known how Calvinists would attempt to twist his words in the future.
If you believe in Limited Atonement, then you have no idea if Jesus died for you. That is logically impossible. And your experience proves nothing.
You really think you are something special don't you? -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Ga 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Your type of salvation is easy believism and pure lip service without the true essence of Biblical savlation - A NEW CREATURE - and that comes ONLY by POWER in addition to "word only." -
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Here's how to know you're an elect of God:
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Also, how 'bout them Raiders? We're 3-4 w/o much offense.
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