Yes, you are right: why is George McGovern on that list? :eek:
BiR </font>[/QUOTE]I would imagine for the same reason Bob Dole was left off.
How many liberals does it take to win a war?
Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by carpro, Aug 13, 2005.
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Dragoon I think you protest to much I was asking
carpro to reflect on the list again and so I made
it available within the context of the page...so
look out the black helicopters are hovering over
your house and Janet Reno is going to repel down
and deliver your pizza.
Major paranoia Dragoon along with the major media
So do you have something to say about the list
or the poem? Then say it..or should I post the list again for you. ;) -
BTW Where are George H.W. Bush, Bob Dole, and Zell Miller since you didn't respond the first time.
Not that it matters to the central thrust of this thread, but I'll take a moment to respond to your "gerrymandered" list.
Military Service in the Congress by Party
(Combined House of Representatives and Senate)
Republicans with military service: 15.7%
Democrats with military service: 9.7%
Independants with military service: 0.2%
Military Service in the Senate Armed Services Committee by Party
Republicans with military service: 26.1%
Democrats with military service: 13%
Military Service in the Senate Veterans' Affairs Committee by Party
Republicans with military service: 28.6%
Democrats with military service: 7.1%
Independants with military service: 7.1%
Military Service in the House Committee on Armed Services by Party
Republicans with military service: 19.7%
Democrats with military service: 13.1%
Military Service in the House Committee on Veterans' Affairs by Party
Republicans with military service: 24%
Democrats with military service: 12% -
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carpro, Any indications of how many members with military experience were drafted versus volunteering?
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http://www.whoserved.com/index.asp
I didn't see any but you're welcome to look for yourself. -
'The reason to continue this arguement is that some people falsely believe they live in a more evolved community and this community they don't live in does not have a long standing policy of letting lies stand unanswered.'
Well, ok, sure.
You serve as nothing but a cautionary tale for citizens in this country who have this preponderance for over pontificating the nature of this world.
The moral of the story: You are still talking peace and love, right and wrong, and yet this world is still in a peck of trouble. Not helping much is it?
So lets break this down barney style for you. The OP is really about the poem and not dictionary.com (although I applaud your attempts at relevant discussion). The poem represents the words and attitudes you will be hearing as your screeching about who got us into this mess, is drowned out. Might as well get used to it. -
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Originally posted by carpro:
Civil discussion is always invited but sometimes you seem to go out of your way to keep it from being so ; "That whole mess o'words is just nasty and self-congratulating, but apparently that appeals to a certain element here."
It seems you have declined the invitation once again.Click to expand...
What is nasty about it? First off, it divides Liberals from the rest of the populace as objects of derision and ridicule and puts Liberals squarely in the "them" camp. That's nasty.
It unfairly attributes attitudes to Liberals that both apply to non-Liberals and does not apply to all Liberals. "You’d pull us from the battle, march us home in full disgrace": Although I opposed the Iraq War in the first place, I am even more opposed to leaving the country before we fix it, while many conservatives are for pulling the troops out as soon as we can foist the semblance of a self-government onto the Iraqis (as opposed to a fully functioning, self-supporting, actual self-government).
Other bits of nastiness: "smell your craven breath", "protest piously", "same old clueless", "flawed eugenics", "pimpled teens", "common sense you still ignore", "fuzzy-headed", "you fools". :eek:
It lauds torturing the enemy, "We inflict pain upon a captive wolf to learn what’s in his head?", ignoring international rules of warfare, "Ignoring that their wolf packs never fight within the rules? /By your demand we stay our hand, you weaken and you bind us;/Forcing us to fight off wolf attacks with that hand tied behind us." and foregoing our own civil liberties, "search lairs without signed warrants". That's nasty. :eek:
How is it self-congratulating? It posits men such as himself as the hero of the piece..."Till “thinking” men took back the courts, put the wolf packs back in cages"..."“thinking” men fight to protect".
How is it a mess o'words? It rhymes, if you consider that to be merit, but it lacks rhythm and grace. It overuses a hackneyed metaphor. It's ugly and repetitive.
How does it appeal to a certain element here? Surely that is too obvious to require my highlighting the evidence (but if you insist, I will).
Now, carpro, defend your stance that I have not discussed this civilly. By civilly I mean without finger-pointing, name-calling, without smearing broad groups, without lies, without unjust accusations.
Prove it or take it back. -
I agree with Carpro, believe he's handled the discussion just fine, and I also enjoyed reading what Russ had written.
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Originally posted by Dragoon68:
I agree with Carpro, believe he's handled the discussion just fine, and I also enjoyed reading what Russ had written.Click to expand...
As for your enjoyment of Russ, well, I've already covered that. -
He didnt accuse you of being uncivil, he accused you of talking about the trees while ignoring the forest fire. Good job, well done, way to go!
Nobody is drowning you out - yet. There are many who are weary of your insistance of being more evolved than all others (talk about arrogance, and yes that is an accusation based on your many posts about how wonderful your world is) who will eventually drown you out. You might live long enough to see how this trend of "everyone is so beneath me" way of thinking will get you nowhere, with little value unless we want to talk everyone to death. Maybe you are on to something...hmmmm.
The poem doesnt have to invite anything. It is simply somebody putting pen and heart to paper. For some of us, we knew what the author meant. Get over it. -
Originally posted by emeraldctyangel:
He didnt accuse you of being uncivil, he accused you of talking about the trees while ignoring the forest fire. Good job, well done, way to go!Click to expand...
Nobody is drowning you out - yet.Click to expand...
There are many who are weary of your insistance of being more evolved than all others...Click to expand...
...(talk about arrogance, and yes that is an accusation based on your many posts about how wonderful your world is)...Click to expand...
....who will eventually drown you out.Click to expand...
You might live long enough to see how this trend of "everyone is so beneath me" way of thinking will get you nowhere, with little value unless we want to talk everyone to death. Maybe you are on to something...hmmmm.Click to expand...
The poem doesnt have to invite anything.Click to expand...
It is simply somebody putting pen and heart to paper.Click to expand...
For some of us, we knew what the author meant.Click to expand...
Get over it.Click to expand...
What ever happened to the ice cream and hugs? :(
emeraldctyangel, What does the odd, interesting phrase "barney style" mean? -
Originally posted by Daisy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dragoon68:
I agree with Carpro, believe he's handled the discussion just fine, and I also enjoyed reading what Russ had written.Click to expand...
As for your enjoyment of Russ, well, I've already covered that.</font>[/QUOTE]See Carpro's postings and Emeraldctyangel's last response. I don't need to elaborate on it any further. -
Originally posted by Dragoon68:
See Carpro's postings and Emeraldctyangel's last response.Click to expand...
I don't need to elaborate on it any further.Click to expand... -
Q: How many liberals does it take to win a war?
A: For which side? -
See Aslanspal's list.
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Just as a courtesy to be on the same page and save
time...love effiency ..here is the list.
FYI
Democrats
* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan.
1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor,
Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze
Star with Combat V, Purple Hearts.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze
Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star &
Bronze Star, Vietnam.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve,
1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army
Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star
and seven campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam,
DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier's Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple
Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne,
Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in
Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments.
Entered draft but received #311.
* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy. Graduate of Naval Academy, Annapolis, MD.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal
with 18 Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII.
* Paul Hackett: Major, USMC, Operation Iraqi Freedom.
Republicans
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the
last by marriage.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to
teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man
who attacked Cleland's patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight
instructor.
* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year
Air National Guard tour of duty; got assigned to Alabama so he could
campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a
non-combat role making movies.
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting
was over in Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of
Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although
continued in NFL for 8 years.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National
Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army
base.
* John Bolton: "I didn't want to die in some South Asian rice paddy. . ."
Pundits & Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a
'pilonidal cyst.')
* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at
things that don't shoot back.)
you can thank me later Dragoon68 after you get
back from your black helicoptor ride with Janet
Reno. ;) ;)
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