Hunting vs Foraging

Unless you could say you are an EXCELLENT shot, I would be HIGHLY surprised that if I put a deer 1/4 mile away from you, that you could say that you are 100% confident that you could make an ethical shot and could drop it with one shot from that distance, regardless of what rifle you own. If you can, that's great, but "probably" isn't ethical in my opinion. I'll never pull the trigger unless I know for sure that when I do, whaver I hit will be lucky to make it 75 yards.

 

If he wasn't trying to be humorous, I hope his blonde moment was only temporary. Because if this was the "finest" example of hermeneutics in your association...

vs 10: And he became hungry, and was desiring to eat.

It's not even a possible reading.

Then you need to re-read this thread...

Post #24

You didn't start hunting until you took a pulpit somewhere, and now you're an expert? The fact is I know exactly what hunting is all about. I hunted religiously during high school and college. (This is the second time I've made that statement in this thread, BTW.) Don't belch out a bunch of subterfuge about building relationships and gaining insight into power, life and death and your place in the cosmos, which are all insights you could acquire by helping a farmer in your association butcher a hog. Your trophy photo belies all your pontification.

My conclusion stands. :type:

 

You mean am I discerning enough. Absolutely. It's like dinner and wine before the kiss. The dinner and wine are enjoyable, but the kiss is the thing.

 

Only in your... uh... "discerning" little mind.

 

Also, regardless of your conclusions as to the meanings of each verse posted, I still didn't see any that were obviously posted by anyone who leaned against hunting, which is what you were saying. THAT is what I am missing. Please point out the verses. I'm so dumb that only the simplest layout will do so please explicitly define who posted it, what they said that made you think they lean against hunting, and the exact verse they posted. You admitted yourself that I'm missing something, so please just point them out, in an incredibly simiple manner, without a whole bunch of crazy rambling. Just real simple. Thanks.

 

Consider this.

1. Fishing was mentioned alot more than hunting in the bible. It was never mentioned as being bad either.

2. Fishing results in an animal being killed, just as hunting does.

3. Fishing is thrilling. You get a rush when you catch something. Catching a fish is the climax of a fishing trip.

4. The disciples went fishing, Jesus helped by using his power to make them catch an insane amount of fish. Jesus also grubbed on some fish.


So, with fishing being on the same level as hunting, and considering the large amount of additional evidence of fishing in the bible yet it's still not mentioned as being wrong... what's the problem? Are you saying Jesus is wrong? Why are people so hung up on hunting with guns?

If you want to use the arguments of it being thrilling and the death of an animal, then you're going to have to confront FISHING. Fishing falls in line with the arguments you are making, yet you avoid the subject. If you can show me how Jesus and the disciples were wrong to go fishing, then I'll never go hunting again. Deal?

 

I don't consider myself and expert...far from it, but I certainly don't hunt religiously, so maybe that is where we differ. Perhaps the obsession was a problem for you, and in that case, I suggest that you do not hunt. As there is no Biblical prohibition of hunting, and the Holy Spirit has not convicted me of this being a problem in my life, I do not find it immoral for me to hunt.

My "pontification?" I have, in various posts, mentioned things that I have found beneficial in my limited hunting experience. None are invalidated by the fact that I have a photo of the buck I managed to kill this season.

 

Sorry to interupt this thread, but just want to say thanks, Lagardo! :thumbs: :wavey:

 

B.A.S.S. does not have an ally in me, but you still don't see, do you? I'm curious about how Lagardo and SBC might respond to your application of the Scripture here.

 

Brother, it is clear that the Holy Spirit has convicted you deeply regarding hunting. As it has been an issue in your past, I pray you are not tempted to return to it.

Given that at this time, a biblical prohibition has not been given, I doubt any of the hunters on this thread are apt to change their opinons. Given that no clear example of hunting for sport has been given, I doubt the anti-hunters are apt to change their mind.

What is the point of further discussion?

Peace be with you.

 

Forget B.A.S.S., we're talking about the normal guy who goes out fishing for stripers and catfish, then brings them home to eat, as they would be the closest to the normal guy who goes out and goes deer hunting. Under your ideals/rules, these guys are sinning by fishing. Yet, it's exactly what the disciples did, and Jesus helped them. Please explain that, so that I may "see". What's the difference?

 

Spare me the dripping piety, puh-leeze! It has never been an "issue" with me. Can't you recognize hyperbole when you see it? I quit hunting because of time and money. Funny how having children can change one's priorities. But, having gone 15 years without hunting for sport, it's easier to judge it for what it is.

But since you're going to bail, here's my recommendation to you. If you want to develop better relationships and gain a deeper insight of man's place in the cosmos, not to mention a better understanding of the metaphors used in the Scriptures, forget hunting and take up agriculture and animal husbandry. If you're in it for the trophy, keep hunting.

 

I first want to see if SBC and Legardo agree with your treatment of the Scriptures in regard to fishing.

 

Why does it matter? Can't you think for yourself? About all I said that even came close to specifically mentioning any passages was that the disciples went fishing and Jesus helped them, and Jesus also ate fish. What's the problem? The Bible specifically says these things. Feel free to review Luke 5 if you think that the statement "the disciples went fishing and Jesus helped them" is out of line.

If the disciples can fish right in front of Jesus and even get help from him without it being mentioned as being bad, then so can I. Since fishing also produces a thrill when you catch one, also results in an animal dying, and is otherwise morally identical to hunting, I have to conclude that it's fine to hunt, especially since I have no proof otherwise.

I realize there's the issue of people just killing just for fun, which we all agree is bad, but back to the fishing analogy... I believe it to be impossible to go fishing and catch either a big fish or at least a whole bunch of fish all at the same time without getting a thrill. You can't do it. Same thing with hunting. It's impossible. You say it's bad, but it specifically shows in the bible that Jesus was a part of this climatic thrill, so I simply have to discount the fact that you say it's sinful. If you have good intentions and are ethical, I see no problem with it. The fact that you get a thrill when you get something doesn't change anything at all. I guarantee the disciples were thrilled to the core when they caught that many fish.


Luke 5:
1 And it came to pass, that, as the people pressed upon him to hear the word of God, he stood by the lake of Gennesaret,

2 And saw two ships standing by the lake: but the fishermen were gone out of them, and were washing their nets.

3 And he entered into one of the ships, which was Simon's, and prayed him that he would thrust out a little from the land. And he sat down, and taught the people out of the ship.

4 Now when he had left speaking, he said unto Simon, Launch out into the deep, and let down your nets for a draught.

5 And Simon answering said unto him, Master, we have toiled all the night, and have taken nothing: nevertheless at thy word I will let down the net.

6 And when they had this done, they inclosed a great multitude of fishes: and their net brake.

7 And they beckoned unto their partners, which were in the other ship, that they should come and help them. And they came, and filled both the ships, so that they began to sink.

8 When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord.

9 For he was astonished, and all that were with him, at the draught of the fishes which they had taken.

 

I want to see if their treatment of Acts 10:13 was really just a blonde moment or not.

Most definitely.

 

That verse is even more pro-hunting if you take it in context, considering the entire passage. Peter is arguing against killing and eating these things but he is told they are clean and that he should kill and eat them. I don't see how anybody could take that as being anti-hunting or even leaning against hunting. Quite the opposite. He was being TOLD to go hunting by the Lord, as the King James version specifically mentions "wild beasts".

But... why do you have to wait on an interpretation of this to comment on Jesus and the disciples going fishing?


Acts 10:
9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray.

10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.

11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners.

12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air.

13 Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."

14 "Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15 The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."


If the Lord was telling him to go hunt wild beasts, that it's perfectly fine even after Peter objects, who are you to say otherwise?

 

A .243 will drop close to 10 inches at 400 yards and lose well about 60% of its energy- roughly 900 ft-lbs. A 7 mm WSM will drop 2 or 3 inches less and retain roughly 60% if its energy- around 1900 ft-lbs... only about 300 less than a 243 has at the muzzle.

If I could hit a deer at 400 yards I am confident it would be every bit as ethical as a 243 at 150.

I shot a doe at around 300 yards last year. It nearly did a flip. Most of the deer I have shot with that rifle have gone straight down.

Kicks pretty good though.

 

corndoggy, Why are you letting Aaron escape?

Maybe I missed the scripture he posted that forbids hunting in any way shape or form. There are scriptures that come close enough to the subject without condemning it that there seems to be implicit if not explicit approval.

I am not aware of a single text that weighs against responsible hunting.

 

The Lord was telling him to hunt wild beasts contained in a white sheet? Didn't you condemn that kind of "hunting" earlier in this thread?

Acts 10:13 has nothing to do with hunting, not by any stretch of the rational imagination.

You keep forgetting in your posts that there's a difference between hunting for sport and foraging. The fact of the matter is that most hunters hunt for the buzz, not for the meat. Deer jerky is really just a perk, a fringe benefit accompanying the kill. Trying to say otherwise is at best uninformed, and at worst disingenuous. You aren't fooling anyone but yourselves.

The question asked in this thread was, is hunting for sport sanctioned in the Scriptures, and the only things offered were verses dealing with animal husbandry or foraging.

 

It is not up to us to prove that scripture "sanctions" hunting. Hunting is mentioned in scripture and not once is the enjoyment of it condemned.

It is up to you or someone else to prove scripturally that hunting and the enjoyment of it is forbidden. If you don't like it or can't do it with the right spirit then by all means don't. But if you are going to sneer at those of us who do it without your apparent inhibitions then you need to have some scripture to back it up.