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Hydroplate Theory

Discussion in 'Creation vs. Evolution' started by church mouse guy, Jun 30, 2017.

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  1. dad1

    dad1 Member

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    No. The migrations happened long before that.

    "The origins of migration remain in the realm of pure conjecture; neither observation nor experiment has resolved the matter. The explanation, however, must be related to geographical and climatological factors that have prevailed since the Neogene Period, which ended some 2,600,000 years ago. The great Quaternary ice ages, which came later, were very important in altering the distribution of animals over a large part of the world, but migrations occurred long before."

    Migration - Origin and evolution of migration | animal

    I do think the move was fast and that mountains were pushed up as a result. The issue is when and in what nature this happened. To happen completely in this nature there are big heat problems.

    Some interpret that to mean several things. Some think it was just the languages. Others, the nations also. Other include the separating of the continents. I even include the separation of the spiritual plane from the physical one! Angels used to marry women in the former nature, and if we recall, the folks at Babel seemed to think a spiritual area was not that high above earth. In this modern nature, we know that is not the case.

    There was still the world that was that should leave some fossils or evidence of some sort, no matter how bad the year of the flood was. The point of the flood was to destroy man off the earth, so all that takes is to drown em. I see no need to try and attribute all fossils and layers to that year.
     
  2. dad1

    dad1 Member

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    After the 1000 years we do have the heavenly city come down to earth. So that is the heavenly city/place we desire. Even in the millennium that will be our home, and we commute to earth as needed.

    The mount of Olives is where His feet will land and the mountain will split in a certain direction at that time. The battle that ensues is right here on earth, in specific locations. The judgment is in a certain valley here. The kingdom rule on earth will be from Jerusalem. There are nations talked about that are right here on earth...etc.


    Since Rev 20 is about the great judgment after the 1000 years, why would it whisper about earth then? You seem to be conflating the great white throne judgment with something else. In the next chapter we see the city come down to earth.
     
  3. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Your source on migration is talking about annual migration not dispersal after the worldwide flood.

    I do not think that angels marry because there is no marriage in Heaven and I do not think that either angels or demons marry humans.
     
  4. Rev20

    Rev20 New Member

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    That is the secular narrative. The biblical narrative can be found in Genesis and Deuteronomy:

    "So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth." -- Gen 11:8-9 KJV

    "And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the Lord thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven." -- Deu 4:19 KJV

    "When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God." -- Deu 32:8 ESV 1970

    "When the Most High divided the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of God." -- Deu 32:8 LXX 1851

    Rev
     
    #64 Rev20, Jan 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  5. Rev20

    Rev20 New Member

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    Please cite biblical references for your assertions.

    That is your interpretation (well, someone's interpretation). But I presented other interpretations in a previous post. Until you can provide adequate exegesis to support your position, I will stick with my interpretation.

    I can only assume that the nations cannot be healed until Satan and his minions are destroyed. In this passage, Satan is released from his prison and goes after the church, world-wide:

    'And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the BREADTH OF THE EARTH, and compassed the CAMP OF THE SAINTS about, and the BELOVED CITY: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.' -- Rev 20:7-9 KJV

    In this passage, the nations are gradually healed:

    "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:" -- Rev 22:1-3 KJV

    However, your proclamation that the holy city comes "down to earth" has no biblical support. Recall this prophecy where Isaiah foretells the house of the Lord to be on the top of the mountains:

    "For in the last days the mountain of the Lord shall be glorious, and the house of God shall be on the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall come to it. And many nations shall go and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will tell us his way, and we will walk in it: for out of Sion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord out of Jerusalem." -- Isa 2:2-3 LXX

    That is virtually the same thing John foretells in the Revelation:

    "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God . . . And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God," -- Rev 21:2-3, 9-10 KJV

    The Hebrews explains that the holy city Jerusalem is located on heavenly mount Sion:

    "For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest . . . But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel." -- Heb 12:18, 22-24 KJV

    New Jerusalem is the Church, and then there is this:

    "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." -- Mat 18:20 KJV

    "And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God." -- Rev 21:3 KJV

    There is only one throne, and one God:

    "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:" -- Rev 22:3 KJV

    Rev
     
  6. Rev20

    Rev20 New Member

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    The overwhelming consensus during the 2nd Temple period was that angels came down to earth during the pre-flood era, married earthly women, and created huge, violent offspring. That is not surprising since there is absolutely no biblical support for Augustine's Sethite theory.

    Are you familiar with these scholars?

    Spiritual Realm - Bible Research Tools

    The second, Dr. Michael Heiser, is an ancient near-east language scholar. The first, Pastor David B. Curtis, is a biblical scholar in his own right, who presents a summary, more-or-less, of Dr. Heiser's analyses.

    Rev
     
  7. dad1

    dad1 Member

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    Unless the continents separated after the flood, there is a problem in getting around the world. Especially if one does not allow for a lot of evolving.

    In heaven, no. While in the earth a long time ago.....yes.
     
  8. dad1

    dad1 Member

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    God dividing nations and scattering them does not mean He ordered flying saucers to get over oceans I suspect. So, when one debates in a science forum, and the question of how animals got around the planet arise, you should have some clue.

    Looking at Australia and other places, we see animals found nowhere else. You basically either think they evolved where they are from the created kinds, or migrated from the ark. It is not a biblical view actually to ignore issues. Yes God divided the nations. The question is whether or not that also involved dividing the continents.
     
  9. dad1

    dad1 Member

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    Rev 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

    11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell F32 delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


    We rule and reign with Him on earth for 1000 years. It is after this the great white throne judgment of all people who ever lived happens.


    The 1000 years starts when Jesus returns and rules on earth. This event is after the 1000 years.
    Correct. Even after the 1000 years and the new earth and heaven is here, they will need healing. That does not mean there was no return of Christ before this.

    Wrong.


    Rev 21: 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
    The heavenly city that came down is the heavenly mt zion.. I am not here to discuss religion by the way. Not sure why you are dredging out minority doctrines to flog, rather than focus on topic?
     
  10. Rev20

    Rev20 New Member

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    Are you trying to be a jerk, or does it come naturally?

    What about their fossils? Are you absolutely certain their fossils are not found in other places -- other continents?

    Please rephrase in a more coherent, scholarly manner.

    Rev
     
  11. Rev20

    Rev20 New Member

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    I was hoping fror more from you. The scripture you quoted provided no proof whatsoever of your assertion that Christ will physically reign on earth for "a thousand years".

    You have yet to provide any biblical proof for your assertion that Christ will physically reign on earth. I know you want to believe that, but can you at least provide some biblical support?

    The scripture says New Jerusalem came down out of heaven to a great and high mountain, which appears to fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah 2. But that passage in no way supports your assertion.

    You had me fooled. I thought you were here to declare your unbridled expertise in the interpretation of the Revelation of Jesus Christ (which he gave to his servants).

    Rev
     
  12. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
     
  13. dad1

    dad1 Member

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    AIG has this


    "There is little secret, therefore, how nonflying animals may have travelled to the outer parts of the world after the Flood. Many of them could have floated on vast floating logs, left-overs from the massive pre-Flood forests that were ripped up during the Flood and likely remained afloat for many decades on the world’s oceans, transported by world currents. Others could later have been taken by people. Savolainen et al., have suggested, for example, that all Australian dingoes are descended from a single female domesticated dog from Southeast Asia.2 A third explanation of possible later migration is that animals could have crossed land bridges."
    How Did Animals Spread All Over from Where the Ark Landed?

    This seems a weaker attempt at explaining how large animals got around than having the continents break up and move.
     
  14. dad1

    dad1 Member

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    Yes, He is coming to earth WITH His saints.
     
  15. dad1

    dad1 Member

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    Since He returns to earth with His saints and judges and rules here, that'll do er.


    One day...on earth as it is in heaven!


    You do realize the battle of Armageddon is on earth?

    So then He will rule the nations..

    Rev 2: 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

    And of course we shall rule with Him.

    What is your point?
     
  16. Rev20

    Rev20 New Member

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    There is little doubt that the earth formerly contained a large "super-continent", in a manner of speaking:

    "And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so." -- Gen 1:9 KJV

    Rev
     
  17. Rev20

    Rev20 New Member

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    Where does it say that?

    I believe you took that passage out of context. The passage reads:

    "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." -- Mat 6:10 KJV

    It says nothing about an earthly kingdom.

    Battle of Armageddon? Where can I find that in the scripture? The only "Armageddon" I am familiar with is mentioned in the Revelation as a staging area, in a manner of speaking:

    "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon." -- Rev 16:13-16 KJV

    Perhaps. But it is important to note that prior to his resurrection, Satan ruled the nations:

    "And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine." -- Luk 4:5-7 KJV

    But after the resurrection, Jesus said he was ruling the nations, even prior to his ascension:

    "And Jesus came and spake unto [the disciples], saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." -- Mat 28:18 KJV

    On the day of Pentecost, Peter said Jesus had already been made Lord:

    "For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ." -- Acts 2:34-36 KJV

    And Jesus, via John, told the church of Laodicea that he was already sitting in the Father's throne:

    "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." -- Rev 3:21 KJV

    I also believe you misapplied Rev 2:26, but that is another matter.

    I am a Berean.

    Rev
     
  18. dad1

    dad1 Member

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    Right, so the issue is when and how it split. Most seem to think the flood was the time. My opinion is that is was centuries after that.
     
  19. dad1

    dad1 Member

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    Seems to me if the kingdom comes it well...comes.


    That's the one. Jesus destroys the wicked that He has the devils gather together there. Right here on earth, in Israel.

    Still does. Until His kingdom comes and rules.

    Yes, all power is His. He went up to heaven. He will return to rule. Here.
    Of course Jesus is Lord...in heaven at the moment, preparing a place for us...here...that will come down from heaven...to earth. It is not here yet, if you haven't noticed.
    Right, while we are still down in His footstool for the moment. One day He returns to rule with a rod of iron. The nations...here...get dashed to pieces.
    I guess I could google that, but not in the mood now.
     
  20. Rev20

    Rev20 New Member

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    It is possible. If so, do you have a theory on the opening of the fountains of the deep?
    Rev
     
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