I see no reason to close the thread until my new thread is made. I may yet be influenced by comments. I've also spent years on this journey to be honest, this was just the first time bringing it to this forum.
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You guys and gals always sharpen me, I must say.
I am Genuinely Confused
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Steven Yeadon, Aug 23, 2017.
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Steven Yeadon Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Steven Yeadon Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Choosing to redeem leaves justice with mercy, which is given by grace.
I am surprised how many people view their self more highly than they ought. -
Have a good rest, Steven!
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Steven Yeadon Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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You have been quickened (made alive from spiritual death) by God, (Eph 2), and have been given the new birth (regeneration) (John 3) so that He could give you faith. This does not happen by our will. The Spirit of God does it.
He has worked in your heart and enabled you to receive Him. (John 1) Those that receive Him, are called the Children of God. This does not come by our effort or through our will. (Read John 1 carefully and Rom 9) I hope these words encourage you and make you more comfortable with your discovery that Calvinism is true.
Please do not let others confuse you again. -
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So how to reconcile? On one level, God hated what happened to His Son, but on the other hand He loved that it happened as it meant salvation to the elect and glory to Him. Think of it this way, your child is fascinated with light sockets, you keep trying but he keeps trying, so you talk to him, you spank him, and he stops. Now you did not enjoy on the one hand spanking him, but on the other you did as you know he's safe.
At this point it's very important that you get into a good study. I would recommend Berkof "Systematic Theology", it is truly the best but a very difficult read for most. Go online and order Wayne Grudem's "Systematic Theology", I like it more than my brothers but they like it very much, it's a much easier read, filled with undeniable verses, and it will put this puzzle together for you. All the best!! -
Did not our Lord say "many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’"
And did not even Paul suggest he wasn't confident about his own ministry?
"So I do not run aimlessly ... lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
I do not believe the Bible teaches that each one of us can have metaphysical certitude about such things because humans are so prone to self-deception, not to mention the deceptions of Satan. We can, however, live in the blessed hope that New Testament writers mention again and again. That's good enough for me. -
Steven Yeadon Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Steven Yeadon Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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That certainly was not my intent. My point was that I believe in predestination but cannot know with absolute certainty of my place within God's will and purpose.
Perseverance, like election, is a gift of God; it cannot be earned by making effort to live as God requires.
That's why I live in blessed hope, not metaphysical certainty. -
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Steve: I see why you're confused. But you don't have to have a systematic soteriology to live a Christian life. I happen to have one because that's the kind of person I am; and it has changed through the years.
Do what the Bible teaches, love God and serve his people and remember that salvation is all of the Lord (which Arminians and Calvinists agree on). -
Steven Yeadon Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I finally needed to sit down, break open the Word of God, and do research to find out what I should or should not believe. To do otherwise was to be foolish and rebellious, for me personally, at this juncture. I have searched a lot on this issue but this time I believe our Father in heaven helped me, along with you guys, come to a conclusion based on the weight of scripture alone.
I am 10 times more at peace internally from this and I feel the Spirit's peace and joy now that I have done this. Am I 100% on this issue? No, but I leave open that I could be wrong as long as whatever is true is on conformity to the whole bible.
By struggling with and accepting for a time predestination, I have come to the conclusion that I am just a puny man, that God does things I do not understand that grieve me such as the devastation in Houston, but I cannot question God. As Job did, God must be praised and worshiped even in the midst of utter nightmare. I believe I am more ready for the Day of Judgment in this Time of Wrath having gone on this investigation. -
And, you are entertaining contrary comments. You are not honest. Instead, you are a hypocrite and a liar:
"What strikes me is that unless I was willing to allow for Calvinism to be true, I could make no further progress on the issue."
You cannot say you’ve changed your mind again! What you say above is no hypothetical statement. It is given with certainty. By what you say here, you are no longer confused. You do not need any more “pro” and “con” comments.
Your journey is over.
You claim you need “more” research. Actually, you are dragging this out purely for the attention you can get. Perhaps others will see through your charade as well. Repent, and leave the forum. I will be praying for you.
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