I Believe the Doctrine of Unconditional Election,

Moses:
Exodus 5
22 Moses returned to the LORD and said, "O Lord, why have you brought trouble upon this people? Is this why you sent me?
23 Ever since I went to Pharaoh to speak in your name, he has brought trouble upon this people, and you have not rescued your people at all.

Abraham
Genesis 18:23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?

Others

 

Pastor_Bob,

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Excuse me Pastor Bob....but your posted statement seems to be one of unbelief.Are you saying God cannot bring a change in your understanding?
I imagine Saul might of had the same objection until Acts 9.
When you witness to a Roman Catholic....do you have any expectation that God can change their belief?

 

Another book of interest is by John Murray....Redemption, Accomplished and Applied...
https://yzahoquraq.files.wordpress....-accomplished-and-applied-john-murray-pdf.pdf

 

There you have it folks!

The "made up rule" that we always claimed that they use for their "redefinition of terms" -- in plain sight!!

"By definition" if you "don't agree with my Calvinist view - it is because you don't understand Calvinism" so also in this case "you don't understand Calvinism" -- because "by definition" anyone who finds a flaw in it 'does not understand it and so does not know what they are talking about".

That is pretty funny!!

 

Only because -- a zillion more explanations and stories -- will not substantively change the main point and so long as the doctrine remains the same in all those stories - it will retain the same flaws.

Now If I were a certain kind of Calvinist I might argue that God predestined you to find the flaws in Calvinism and that you have no choice in the matter - you must expose them because God has always known that you would and has predestined you to do it.

 

Well, I don't think anyone does including most calvinists.

Many years ago I acquired the Institutes and I made that observation.

Actually the volume is a good sleep aid.

 

I have seen a few " I am Calvinist and I don't agree with Calvin" posts any time someone posts something from the institutes that refutes what today's Calvinists claim to believe.

 

Ayr you allowed to deviate at all from what Ellen White wrote/spoke on the Bible and salvation, or must you heed and keep all of her works?

 

Pastor Bob,

Romans 10:13 is a great proof text . Yet Jesus says that only the elect will come.

John 6:37-39English Standard Version (ESV)

37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.


John 6:44English Standard Version (ESV)

44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

 

Pastor Bob,

I don't want to be offensive. You are serving the same God I do. You do seem to be confused about what reformed theology teaches. Salvation is of the Lord completely.

I feel confident that you have read Paul's teaching throughout the New Testament.

Ephesians 1:3-11English Standard Version (ESV)

Spiritual Blessings in Christ

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us[a] for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known[b] to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

God chose us before we were ever born.

 

Did you imagine a bunch of "Ellen White" in my post just then??

Oh yeah - that's right - when I merely posted verbatim Matthew 18 and Romans 11 - you responded that these texts posted (with the references clearly stated) - was also "Ellen White".

Just in case it is "something else" - I hope you can accommodate the real-life-fact that I don't have all 100,000 pages of her writings memorized so as to "check with it' before posting. Most people here would probably have assumed that obvious point - but you might need some clarity on that point, so am offering it.

I seldom quote anything from her - except when I find one of these "everything is Ellen White" Baptists on this board - who only want to know or imagine something Ellen White said. I don't mind posting "corrections" in that case (at least I do that a little) -- but that is about it.

 

This is an important point. The way we describe salvation , how it works, who God actually loves and who He does not at all care to save... is also the way we are describing our view of God.

 

Chosen by foreknowledge.

1 Peter 1
To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,

Not at all the "arbitrary selection" model promoted in Calvinism

 

Indeed there is - "the Holy Spirit convicts THE WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" John 16
"I will DRAW ALL mankind unto ME" John 12:32

Prevenient Grace for ALL - the "Whole World"

Enabling ALL to choose.

 

Not true at all.

Arbitrarily saving the "FEW" of Matthew 7 instead of the "MANY" or the "WHOLE WORLD" of 1 John 2:2 is not only arbitrary - but deceptive given that God says He died for the "Whole World".

Because His own Word obligated Himself.

He COULD have had a Calvinist text instead "I love only the FEW and not the MANY" -- but sadly for Calvinists - God does not describe His character or methods as Calvinist.

 

You do not understand biblical foreknowledge.

 

Pontifical assertions aside... I prefer the actual Bible.

BTW - we already had this rather "revealing" exchange exposing how Calvinists get stuck on the "you don't understand" dead end.

 

Cultists have a different authority than the bible alone. That is why they cannot grasp when the bible verses are answered for them....they look to the teachings of the cult they are in and downplay scripture and the correct teaching altogether. Everytime you are given scriptural correction you cannot bear it.
Your mis use of 1pet...is not really dealing with the verse at all.

 

That is not "prevenient/preceding" grace.

This is a common definition from the web that is typical expression of the meaning:

Prevenient grace is a Christian theological concept rooted in Arminian theology, though it appeared earlier in Catholic theology. It is divine grace that precedes human decision. In other words, God will start showing love to that individual at a certain point in his lifetime.
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What that definitional thinking doesn't recognize is that it was actually the Wesley's that brought such into the protestant frame, and although they were primarily Calvinistic thinking, they were seeking some way in which they could allow for a freedom of expression based upon human manipulation that God in His word did not authorize.


There is no place in Scriptures that show such a grace to be factually based.

 

Indeed there is - "the Holy Spirit convicts THE WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" John 16
"I will DRAW ALL mankind unto ME" John 12:32

Prevenient Grace for ALL - the "Whole World"

Enabling ALL to choose.

From the definition you just quoted - it appears to be exactly John 16, and John 12:32.

How could it not be??

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The prevenient Grace concept is as we see in John 12:32 and John 16 - the supernatural work of God on all mankind - the supernatural drawing of all mankind... the supernatural convicting of all the world - that enables choice for all mankind even though mankind has a sinful nature.

Those scriptures - are in scripture.