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I Believe the Doctrine of Unconditional Election,

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Mar 10, 2018.

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  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Pontifical assertions aside... I prefer the actual Bible.

    Vitriol and acrimony have a different authority from scripture.

    So I ignore it... I prefer actual scripture.
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    No...you hate scripture when it is actually explained to you.
     
  3. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    John 16 nor John 12:32 support preceding/prevenient grace.

    You will have to do better in showing the verses in context and how grace is assigned to them (which it isn't).

    God rains on both the just and unjust doesn't not mean that preceding/prevenient grace is in play.

    God saying to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." is not a statement of preceding/prevenient grace.

    So it is with John 12 and 16. Neither are statements of prevenient/preceding grace.

    Such is added because folks desire to show they are self capable of accepting or rejecting simply by an exercise of their own self will.

    Such is but "vain imaginings" and has no true Scripture foundation.
     
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  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Indeed there is - "the Holy Spirit convicts THE WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" John 16
    "I will DRAW ALL mankind unto ME" John 12:32

    Prevenient Grace for ALL - the "Whole World"

    Enabling ALL to choose.


    From the definition you just quoted - it appears to be exactly John 16, and John 12:32.

    How could it not be??
    The prevenient Grace concept is as we see in John 12:32 and John 16 - the supernatural work of God on all mankind - the supernatural drawing of all mankind... the supernatural convicting of all the world - that enables choice for all mankind even though mankind has a sinful nature.

    Those scriptures - are in scripture.

    It will be interesting to see if you have more than "assertion" to back that up from actual scripture.


    True -- and probably why I don't make any mention of those irrelevant texts.

    I note the repeated assertion - where is the proof?

    You only followed by more "assertions" and of course you have free will to merely "assert" then prove your assertion by more "asserting" -- I was just curious if you had an actual Bible case.

    We can all "assert"
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Pontifical assertions aside... I prefer the actual Bible.

    Vitriol and acrimony have a different authority from scripture.

    So I ignore it... I prefer actual scripture.

    more rant?? really?
    I am a bit surprised.
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Do you understand that almost no one else responds to your vain repetitions anymore? Consider your ways...
     
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    you need to read the actual posts - before making stuff up..

    Less vitriol... more Bible please.
     
  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    you repeat the same three posts over and over...no one reads them anymore...you quote yourself...you do not want the bible in context, just out of context verses over and over...we have read them, and corrected you, but you do not welcome the correction.
    that leads to this;
    7 And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding,

    when you can accept what scriptures are offered to you, more will follow.
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    at some point - truth will enter your post... waiting

    As for other posts "the ones with scripture that you avoid" they are "irrefutable" and the Calvinist response to irrefutable debunking of Calvinism via scripture is almost always "ad hominem" and eventually vitriol and acrimony.

    I think you know the drill pretty well from your posts.
     
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  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Bob...I hate to bring bad news to you....you have never come close to anything irrefutable...not even close....
    Look you sound like a nice guy. i do not want to constantly inform you of these things...what town do you live in?I will meet with you over coffee, or breakfast with open bibles ...where I can better address your ideas.....with bibles open....the keyboard is not getting it done...
     
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  11. Katarina Von Bora

    Katarina Von Bora Active Member

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    I've been reading your posts, but can't figure out who you are responding to. I haven't been here too long so perhaps there is some other way to view them.
     
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  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I like your posts...sometimes I post to a specific person, sometimes I try and post to the topic itself no matter who.posts.
     
  13. Katarina Von Bora

    Katarina Von Bora Active Member

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    Thank you for reply. God Speed.
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are you allowed to disagree with EW on doctrines and interpretation, or not?
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Foreknowledge would be as God Himself determine their election/causing it to happen, not just passive and knowing that some will accept themselves!
     
  16. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    No. He is not. Disagreeing with Ellen White is disagreeing with God Himself, according to SDA doctrine.
     
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  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    She is viewed in same sense we would Paul or John!
     
  18. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Here writing, according to SDA came directly from God. They are not her words. They are His words, so if one were to disagree with her, they would be disagreeing with God.
     
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  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    They than would be treating her on same par as Jesus Christ!
     
  20. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    I don't think so. They don't think that she is devine.
     
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