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I consider myself Philadelphian

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by rockytopva, Jan 4, 2021.

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  1. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Before I was saved, I was persuaded to go to a holiness service. It started out normally, with singing & preaching, but the preacher kept getting louder & louder until he couldn't be understood, & began screeching. many of the audience had risen to their feet & started arm-waving as if their team had scored a touchdown. Then, while the preacher was screeching, many of them lay on the floor & began cutting dust angels. At that point, I left, believing I'd walked into a funny farm by mistake. I thought, though I was then unsaved, "How can that be HONORING GOD?" And I still wonder that today !
     
  2. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    The Sardisean church before us had its advantages...

    1. As a Sardis is a gem so it is much more solid.
    2. As a Sardis is a gem so it is much more harder

    A Sardisean is much more steadfast in their ways. With the Civil War generation I would have been Methodist. With the WW2 generation I would have remained Pentecostal Holiness.

    Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out... - Revelation 3:12

    I believe the biggest difference between the Sadisean and the Philadelphian is that the Sardisean does not believe in backsliding but the Philadelphian practices it! It is very annoying to me that the Philadelphian revival went the way of the Laodicean church age. The Philadelphian revival is not at all steadfast and the people these days share very little in common as in time past. I am still a member of the Pentecostal Holiness church and visit their churches from time to time. I believe there are three influences

    1. Sardis - Many of our preachers are Liberty University graduates and have heard the phrase "Baptist-Costal"
    2. Philadelphia - Not many of the churches left I was brought up in
    3. Laodicea - I consider these churches "Charismatic"

    On vacation I will try to find good camp meetings. I was very surprised to have attended a Holiness camp meeting and to have found a gentleman there with shorts! I did enjoy a typical old fashion service - Singing, preaching, altar call, and good fellowship afterwards.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Still hawking a false doctrine, I see...

    And no comments about the "holiness" service I mentioned...
     
    #43 robycop3, Jan 8, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021
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  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    When you place your faith in your teachers and neglect studying God's word, you end up with a man-made imaginative belief. Lack of discernment will lead to terrible theology.
     
  5. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    This is a powerful statement....

    Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; - Revelation 2:1

    Especially if you believe like me that the seven stars are all the Christians held together in the right hand of Christ! And the seven golden candlesticks are the seven congregations that would come about in history!
     
  6. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Especially when those teachers stray from Scripture! The "7 church ages" hooey is found NOWHERE IN SCRIPTURE !

    Jesus dictated some letters for John to send to them. He did NOT say each one was the progenitor of a coming age !
     
  7. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    The problem with the Holiness church is that they are not all unique. This is not like a Seven Day Advent or Mormon movement where all are bound together. I have found Holiness preachers both good and bad. It is important, that if someone claims sanctification, that you have the ability to peer within the heart and find good things. My old pastor was a good example of sanctification....

    1. Very disciplined guy - Up at 6AM every morning
    2. Rejoiced in what he called being a Pentecostal Holiness country preacher
    3. Revivals - At least one every two months - All with unique and good evangelists
    4. Would let the Holy Spirit have his way in service
    5. Take time to pray for the sick at church and in the hospitals. Carried a bottle of anointing oil with him
    6. Was a friendly guy and would come visit you
    7. Loved God and very Christlike.
    8. A great, loving, and supportive family man as well
    9. No allegations against the guy the 30 years he was with us

    [​IMG]

    Our church board thought replacing him would be easy. They have been through many pastors since and the church has done poorly.
     
  8. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    You were taught wrong. The 7 stars were the angels , or messengers, of those churches, as He clearly explained in Rev. 1:20; the 7 candlestix were the churches themselves, all existing simultaneously at that time.

    Yes, your teachers really stepped in it,
     
  9. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    Does your church do this?

    13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
    14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
    15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. - James 5
     
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    He obviously had a few false doctrines. No one "lets" the HOLY SPIRIT do anything; He is God, & does what He chooses when He chooses, And He was NOT the driving force behind the monkeyshines in that service I wrote about earlier. And there's nothing in Scripture that tells us to use anointing oil today.

    The entire holiness movement seemsta have those false doctrines, plus some others, such as the KJVO myth. I have no use for that movement, except to proclaim the Gospel to its members, & to make jokes about, such as the "Holy Rollers Crapshooting team". Thankfully, the whole mess seemstabee in decline.
     
  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Rocky, the Revelation is about our King...Jesus. You are missing the forrest because of the trees.
     
  12. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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  13. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    We certainly pray over & for the sick, but we don't grease him/her.
     
  14. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    Such a response is a belittlement of scripture... Which said....
    Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: -James 5:14

    When we had a plating department in our facility I worked under a chemist. This chemist was very smart and very good at math. When he laid out equations he did so in very neat handwriting and there would be much activity as he turned the results of an analysis into an addition. I would take his calculations and put them in the form of visual basic functions and sub procedures.

    Of all the years I worked with this man I had one opportunity to witness to him. I made my presentation while he was analyzing adhesion under a microscope in which you could hear the sounds... Scratch, scratch, scratch! Scratch scratch, scratch! After my presentation he just continued to look under the microscope as if ignored everything I said so I just continued in my work. Then... The scratch scratch, scratching stopped! And he speaks!

    "You know what I think it is?" He says while continuing to look under the microscope... "I think it is arrogance!"

    And then, without taking his eyes off the microscope, he continues his work... Scratch, scratch, scratch! Scratch scratch, scratch! I did not reply but went about my work. Inside I feared he was right. In many cases religion can inhabit too much personal ego. Many have the unction of the Spirit confused with their own ego and the things of God are no longer precious.

    Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments; -Psalms 133:1-2

    I would rather refer to the anointing oil as something precious. Not grease!
     
  15. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    The only 'anointing' one should have today is that of the Holy Spirit.

    You must remember that things change over time; GOD knows that, of course, & He causes/allows much of it. For instance, in Solomon's time, He commanded all Israel to worship at the temple in Jerusalem. But by Jesus' time, the Jews who didn't live in Jerusalem worshipped in local synagogues. We see no Scriptural commands to have synagogues, but even JESUS HIMSELF worshipped in them And the Israelis were to take an animal from their own flocks for offerings, but by Jesus' time, most jews were not agrarian, & purchased animals for offerings from a dealer, or placed money in an offering box.

    And such things as hairdos, tassels on clothes, bling, makeup, etc. have become irrelevant. (We all remember Tammy Faye & her Weatherbeater makeup.)

    Your chemist friend was right. practicing old, outdated, useless religious rites is a matter of being too arrogant to live in today's world happily & successfully. Nothing wrong with proper televangelism, preachers using modern media, etc. The only things Jesus commanded ceremony-wise are Communion, foot-washing, & baptism. All other ceremonies are superfluous, but there's nothing wrong with observing Easter & Christmas properly, with JESUS-not the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus-as the central Person.

    Today, people still lay hands on the sick, but anointing is confined to a few sects, & just a few individuals among them. There's no record of anointing having more success than simply praying.
     
  16. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    roby, what does the Bible tell Christians to do?

    James 5:13-16
    Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise. Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

    Notice, James never says the prayer will heal the one who is sick. James says the prayer will save the one who is sick. That prayer will result in forgiveness of his sins. James then continues the idea of confession and prayer for healing, but that healing is not physical, but spiritual. That prayer is honored by God and heals the soul.

    I, personally, see no reason to abandon what God tells the elders to do (by the way, I think there is a very strong argument for elder/shepherd leadership in the local church.). Elders should bring oil and pray. Sins should be confessed and salvation should be the end goal.
     
  17. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    I believe the congregations in Christianity are seven all held in the right hand of Christ as seven stars or constellations. I do not know the exact geography and times of these congregations...

    Messianic - The first one beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
    Persecuted - The second one beginning with the Apostle to the Uncircumcision, Paul
    Orthodox - Beginning with Constantine
    Catholic - Beginning with Charlemagne
    Protestant - Beginning with Martin Luther
    Great Awakening - Beginning with John Wesley
    Materialistic "Laodicean" - Beginning with DL Moody

    Not knowing - Where congregations such as SDA, Mormonism, Jehovah Witness, or other so called congregations fit in.

    To describe a Philadelphian we turn to John Wesley and his description of "What is a Methodist"

    1. We believe, indeed, that all Scripture is given by the inspiration of God. We believe the written word of God to be the only and sufficient rule both of Christian faith and practice.
    2. We do not place our religion, or any part of it, in being attached to any peculiar mode of speaking, any quaint or uncommon set of expressions.
    3. Our religion does not lie in doing what God has not enjoined, or abstaining from what he hath not forbidden. It does not lie in the form of our apparel, in the posture of our body, or the covering of our heads; nor yet in abstaining from marriage, or from meats and drinks, which are all good if received with thanksgiving.
    4. Nor, lastly, is he distinguished by laying the whole stress of religion on any single part of it
    5. "What then is the mark? Who is a Methodist, according to your own account?" I answer: A Methodist is one who has the love of God shed abroad in his heart by the Holy Ghost given unto him; one who loves the Lord his God with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his mind, and with all his strength. God is the joy of his heart, and the desire of his soul; which is constantly crying out, "Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee! My God and my all! Thou art the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever!"
    6. He is therefore happy in God, yea, always happy, as having in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life, and overflowing his soul with peace and joy. Perfect love having now cast out fear, he rejoices evermore. He rejoices in the Lord always, even in God his Saviour; and in the Father, through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom he hath now received the atonement. Having found redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of his sins, he cannot but rejoice, whenever he looks back on the horrible pit out of which he is delivered; when he sees all his transgressions blotted out as a cloud, and his iniquities as a thick cloud. He cannot but rejoice, whenever he looks on the state wherein he now is; being justified freely, and having peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. For he that believeth, hath the witness of this in himself; being now the son of God by faith. Because he is a son, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into his heart, crying, Abba, Father! And the Spirit itself beareth witness with his spirit, that he is a child of God. He rejoiceth also, whenever he looks forward, in hope of the glory that shall be revealed; in this his joy is full, and all his bones cry out, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who, according to his abundant mercy, hath begotten me again to a living hope -- of an inheritance incorruptible, undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for me!"
    7. And he who hath this hope, thus full of immortality, in everything giveth thanks; as knowing that this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning him. From him, therefore, he cheerfully receives all, saying, Good is the will of the Lord; and whether the Lord giveth or taketh away, equally blessing the name of the Lord. For he hath learned, in whatsoever state he is, therewith to be content. He knoweth both how to be abased and how to abound
    8. For indeed he prays without ceasing. It is given him always to pray, and not to faint.
    9. And while he thus always exercises his love to God, by praying without ceasing, rejoicing evermore, and in everything giving thanks, this commandment is written in his heart, "That he who loveth God, love his brother also." And he accordingly loves his neighbor as himself; he loves every man as his own soul. His heart is full of love to all mankind, to every child of the Father of the spirits of all flesh.
    10. For he is pure in heart the love of God has purified his heart from all revengeful passions, from envy, malice, and wrath, from every unkind temper or malign affection. It hath cleansed him from pride and haughtiness of spirit, whereof alone cometh contention. And he hath now put on bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering: So that he forbears and forgives, if he had a quarrel against any; even as God in Christ hath forgiven him. And indeed all possible ground for contention, on his part, is utterly cut off. For none can take from him what he desires; seeing he loves not the world, nor any of the things of the world; being now crucified to the world, and the world crucified to him; being dead to all that is in the world, both to the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye, and the pride of life. For all his desire is unto God, and to the remembrance of his name.
    11. Agreeable to this his one desire, is the one design of his life, namely, "not to do his own will, but the will of Him that sent him." His one intention at all times and in all things is, not to please himself, but Him whom his soul loveth. He has a single eye. And because his eye is single, his whole body is full of light. Indeed, where the loving eye of the soul is continually fixed upon God, there can be no darkness at all, but the whole is light; as when the bright shining of a candle doth enlighten the house. God then reigns alone. All that is in the soul is holiness to the Lord. There is not a motion in his heart, but is according to his will. Every thought that arises points to Him, and is in obedience to the law of Christ.
    12. And the tree is known by its fruits. For as he loves God, so he keeps his commandments; not only some, or most of them, but all, from the least to the greatest. He is not content to "keep the whole law, and offend in one point;" but has, in all points, "a conscience void of offense towards God and towards man."
    13. All the commandments of God he accordingly keeps, and that with all his might. For his obedience is in proportion to his love, the source from whence it flows. And therefore, loving God with all his heart, he serves him with all his strength.
    14. By consequence, whatsoever he doeth, it is all to the glory of God. His one invariable rule is this, "Whatsoever ye do, in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."
    15. Nor do the customs of the world at all hinder his running the race that is set before him. He knows that vice does not lose its nature, though it becomes ever so fashionable; and remembers, that every man is to give an account of himself to God. He cannot, therefore, follow even a multitude to do evil. He cannot fare sumptuously every day, or make provision for the flesh to fulfill the lusts thereof. He cannot lay up treasures upon earth, any more than he can take fire into his bosom. He cannot adorn himself, on any pretense, with gold or costly apparel. He cannot join in or countenance any diversion which has the least tendency to vice of any kind. He cannot speak evil of his neighbor, any more than he can lie either for God or man. He cannot utter an unkind word of any one; for love keeps the door of his lips. He cannot speak idle words; no corrupt communication ever comes out of his mouth, as is all that which is not good to the use of edifying, not fit to minister grace to the hearers. Whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are justly of good report, he thinks, and speaks, and acts, adorning the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ in all things.
    16. Lastly. As he has time, he does good unto all men; unto neighbors and strangers, friends and enemies: And that in every possible kind; not only to their bodies, by feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting those that are sick or in prison; but much more does he labor to do good to their souls, as of the ability which God giveth; to awaken those that sleep in death; to bring those who are awakened to the atoning blood, that, being justified by faith, they may have peace with God; and to provoke those who have peace with God to abound more in love and in good works.
    17. These are the principles and practices of our sect; these are the marks of a true Methodist. By these alone do those who are in derision so called, desire to be distinguished from other men. If any man say, "Why, these are only the common fundamental principles of Christianity!" thou hast said; so I mean; this is the very truth; I know they are no other; and I would to God both thou and all men knew, that I, and all who follow my judgment, do vehemently refuse to be distinguished from other men, by any but the common principles of Christianity, -- the plain, old Christianity that I teach, renouncing and detesting all other marks of distinction. And having the mind that was in Christ, he so walks as Christ also walked.
    18. By these marks, by these fruits of a living faith, do we labor to distinguish ourselves from the unbelieving world from all those whose minds or lives are not according to the Gospel of Christ.
     
    #57 rockytopva, Jan 9, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2021
  18. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    "To each, according to the workings of his own conscience."

    If you feel comfy with dumping olive oil on an ill friend or relative, go ahead, if he/she's receptive to it. I'd prefer to be prayed over & given appropriate medical care.
     
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    rev. 1:20
    The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.

    Scripture can't be much plainer! You need to get that garbage outta your head that some cult or sect taught you.

    And for the umpteenth time, there's simply NO Scripture supporting "church ages"!
     
  20. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    You are misusing the phrase you quoted by being out of context.
    We must be very careful with dismissing scripture just because we think it's only a cultural thing.
    James gives clear instructions and expects elders in the church will do this for the Christian who calls the elders to prayer.
    I suggest this has nothing to do with conscience.
     
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