Dear KJVO,
This is an endless pursuit.
But, You are in the same boat as non-KJVO.
Please answer...
Which KJ Bible is the "perfect" Word of God?
1611AD... (many revisions) ... 1769AD?
Cambridge or Oxford edition?
(things which are different are not the same).
You cannot answer but must always elude the question because THE ORIGINAL ENGLISH TRANSLATION manuscript made by the King James translators HAS BEEN LOST and you have no basis of comparison to determine which of the above is the "perfect" Word of God.
HankD
If the KJVO belief about preservation is true...
Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Daniel David, Feb 5, 2003.
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If only the KJV is the "final authority", by what "authority" can such a claim be made? Get it?
But, to try and at least keep a reasonable discussion alive, I try to explain my view anyway, to show *why* KJV-onlyists *can't* back up their positive assertion. Because if an "INFALLIBLE, INERRANT BIBLE" (in which any deviation in wording renders it as no longer the preserved word of God) was produced (e.g. in 2003 or 1978 or 1901 or 1611) then an "INFALLIBLE, INERRANT BIBLE" could not have existed prior to that date. Not only that, but the logic then also demonstrates that the KJV-only understanding of "preservation" breaks down across any time that spans 1611. This is SIMPLE logic, and exposes the false premise of KJV-onlyism. Yet this KEY point REPEATEDLY gets ignored, for obvious reasons.
Pastor Bob, I am very curious: what do you think of JYD's comments that God changed scripture, specifically with the issue of Isa 61:1-2? Do you agree or disagree? If you agree, how does that jive with KJV-only-type "preservation"? If you disagree, why are you remaining silent about it?
[ February 08, 2003, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: BrianT ] -
2. I strongly disagree with this. They argue strongly for the inerrancy of the KJV. God never made such a promise. Inerrancy extends to the copies only in the sense that the copies accurately represent the originals. Since there is no doctrine that is compromised or removed from the NKJV, NASB, & ESV, I can equally say that they are inspired and inerrant.
Also, KJVO say that anything that is different from the KJV is wrong. We know how ridiculous this statement is because the KJV has undergone many revisions and editions itself.
3. Bob, I respect you personally, but you are totally wrong about this. I would not preach at all if I thought I was not holding God's inerrant word in my hands. I believe I have the inerrant word of God.
4. This has not been conclusively proven. It is a very real possibility that the KJV has portions that have been added. I could say that it adds to the foundation that God has given and tried to improve it. -
Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member
I also officiate high school basketball. One of the things you learn right away is that your partner is responsible for his primary area of coverage. If he makes a bad call, he has to live or die by his call. I cannot continually come in a change his call. If I do, the whole crew loses their credibility. The coach would expect me to make all of the calls the rest of the game. If I allow him to make his own calls, he is recognized as a good or bad official on his own merits.
The same goes for anyone on the BB. I can't think of anyone that I've agreed 100% with yet. -
Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member
You admit you have concerns about specific translations; again, we are in agreement. I am not doubting your sincerity; nor have I doubted the sincerity of anyone who prefers a MV. -
Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member
Prov. 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. (KJV)
2Cor 5:7 For we walk by faith, not by sight (KJV) -
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As for the "proof" of our view of preservation, I think sevearl comments can be made.
1. The NT regularly quotes from things that are not the KJV and are indeed read very differently than the KJV. What this shows is that perfect preservation (or perfect identity) is not a necessary component of scriptural preservation. It shows that things other than the KJV can accurately be called the inspired word of God and can be quoted with authority.
2. The failure of any two manuscripts to match perfectly shows that perfect preservation simply is not true. If God perfectly preserved his word (meaning letters and words), then we should expect to find evidence from every era of church history in the form of identical manuscripts. For instance, the 7th century manuscripts should match the 14th century which should match the 2nd century which should match the 15th century. This simply is not true. There is no complete manuscript (they are all in pieces of varying size) and there are no two matching manuscripts. When someone comes along and says "This" is the word of God, they are arguing from induction or deduction, not from revelation. That is a significant point. Those who say the TR is the perfectly preserved or only reliable Greek text are not arguing from revelation but rather from induction passed through a mind affected by sin. Let us not forget that. -
</font>[/QUOTE]Pastor Bob, apparently you do not understand my previous point about positive assertions. I provided the logic only to demonstrate *why* KJV-onlyists cannot back up their claim: because the claim is self-contradicting.
And apparently you understood the logic, but choose to remain illogical - why?
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Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member
I have not seen the originals. You have not seen the originals. The originals alone were inspired by God. Some believe they are preserved in a specific English version; others believe they are preserved in a host of English versions. The point is, human logic is faulty when determining our position. You have to have a more sure basis than human logic.
To point out the "illogicalness" (I think this is a word) of the KJVO position is a mute point because logic is not the objective, truth is. I conceed that much of the arguments that have been presented have been very weak and easily contested. Still, the basis is not human logic or understanding.
1Cor 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. (KJV) -
Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member
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