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Immortal Soul/Spirit Theology, Part Of The False Gospel, Practicers Of Necromancy

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by One Baptism, Jul 14, 2017.

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  1. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Immortal Soul/Spirit Theology, Part Of The False Gospel, Practicers Of Necromancy

    In the Scripture, it is an abomination and forbidden for God's people to use Necromancy or themselves to be Necromancers: Beginning in Deuteronomy 18:9:

    Deuteronomy 18:9 KJB - When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.​

    Deuteronomy 18:10 KJB - There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

    Deuteronomy 18:11 KJB - Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

    Deuteronomy 18:12 KJB - For all that do these things [are] an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

    Deuteronomy 18:13 KJB - Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.​

    What is Necromancy?

    Necro- : muwth – means Death

    -mancy/er : darash – means speaker/seeker/consulter​

    In a more fully defined fashion, Necromancy/er means who one speaks to, or converses with the dead, or consults the dead, or seeks to gain something, such as information, from the dead.

    Why is this forbidden? What do we know about the dead from the Bible?

    Ecclesiastes 9:5 KJB - For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

    Ecclesiastes 9:6 KJB - Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.

    Ecclesiastes 9:10 KJB - Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do [it] with thy might; for [there is] no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.​

    How much does a dead person know?

    According to Ecclesiastes, They “know not anything”, right? And that person is then “in the grave” right? This would include then, all “their love, their hatred, and their envy”, because it too is now “perished”, right?

    Even as it is according to Psalms 146:4, indeed, “... in that very day his thoughts perish,” right?

    According to Psalms 115:17, we read, “... The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.”

    According to Isaiah 38:18, we read, “For the grave cannot praise thee, death can [not] celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.”

    According to Isaiah 8:19, it is written, “... should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?”

    Question. Should we as God's professing people ever practice Necromancy, be as a Necromancer?

    Question. I am going to ask again. Are you sure?

    Question. What then are God's professing people doing by practicing just those very things?​

    That's outrageous! Surely not, God's own professing people?

    Yes. Even God's own professing people, and most especially those teaching the pagan immortal soul/spirit theology, but even those amongst the remnant which don't outwardly teach it, we find it practially being done ...

    I am going to hold up a mirror, and by the light of God's word, it will reveal the abominations being done among God's own professing people, and it is directly tied to the false gospel, and immortal soul/spirit theology.

    Many, in this very forum are practicing necromancy, and yet are somewhat ignorant of it.

    Many are betraying their Lord, Who is ready to look? Many will say in their heart, "Master, is it I?"
     
  2. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    1 Cor 15 :51-53 says: "Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality".

    St. Thomas Aquinas crystalized the doctrine of the immortal soul in the Summa Theologica. He taught that the soul is a conscious intellect and will and cannot be destroyed.

    I'll believe his teaching and St. Paul's thank you very much!
     
  3. John of Wood Green

    John of Wood Green New Member
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    That the soul of all that are born of Woman remains conscious after death and for eternity (but only reunited with the body at the Second Coming) is biblical teaching. However, the souls of the damned are forever banned from leaving hell for anything other than the Judgement and lake of fire, so it is pointless and forbidden to seek contact with them (They are, however, concerned about what happens on earth, particularly as regards the continuing results of their wicked deeds on earth - Remember Dives's prayer and the answer to it). The souls of the blessed are ignorant of what is happening on earth, and happily so ("though Abraham be ignorant of us" - Isaiah 63:16. Proving that Abraham is both conscious and ignorant of what happens on earth). Consequently it is forbidden also to seek contact with them. Attempts to contact the dead will either fail to contact anyone at all, if you're "lucky", or bring you into communion with evil spirits. Not because the dead are undergoing soul sleep, which they are not, but because, unlike evil spirits, they are unreachable by us in this life.
     
  4. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Ezekiel 18:4 KJB - "... the soul that sinneth, it shall die."

    Ezekiel 18:20 KJB - "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. ..."

    Romans 6:23 KJB - "For the wages of sin is death ..."

    Those who teach immortal soul/spirit theology, actually have a false gospel, which, amidst one of it's doctrines and practices, is Necromancy -- conversation with that which is [supposed to be] dead.

    Those who teach immortal soul/spirit theology teach that persons do not actually die - ever.

    Consider this most carefully, in what it means to the gospel that is preached and 'lived':

    1 Corinthians 15:46 KJB - Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.


    Four words:

    Old man of sin.

    If you are one who teaches immortal soul/spirit theology, your Gospel will be false and you will be practicing necromancy.

    How? Their old man of sin is thus immortalized, cannot actually die, and this persons "gospel" will be powerless to obtain victory over every besetting temptation and sin. They will actually reveal, by their life, because of this, failure to obtain the complete victory, and they will attack God's Ten Commandments, and especially the Fourth, Exodus 20:8-11 KJB, the Holy Seventh day the Sabbath of the Lord thy God, the very sign of "finished", complete, and Seal of God.

    If you teach immortal soul/spirit theology, you will be found in "conversation" with your old man of sin, rather than in "conversation" with the living man, Christ Jesus [Revelation 1:18 KJB]; John 14:15; Exodus 20:6 KJB.

    Ephesians 2:1 KJB - "... dead in trespasses and sins."

    Colossians 2:13 KJB - "And you, being dead in your sins ..."

    Do ye not know that the scriptures [KJB] tells us:

    Ephesians 4:22 KJB - That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

    Did you catch that phrase about "conversation"? I love it! That's the KJB way of saying 'conduct', 'lifestyle', or 'walk', which includes both thought and speech (talking). The Old Man of sin, the world-loving man, should be DEAD!, and not pretend dead, not a little dead, not mostly dead, not even sleeping dead, but all-together dead. Old Man of sin:

    Lifestyle - DEAD

    Dress - DEAD

    Appetite - DEAD

    Tastes - DEAD

    Speech - DEAD

    Thinking - DEAD

    The Lust of the Flesh, the Lust of the Eyes, and the Pride of Life - DEAD!

    Anyone clining to their Old Man of sin, ANY sin, will NEVER enter Heaven, and will not be allowed to 'live' much longer, for sin has a limit, an END - James 1:15 KJB, God has given 6,000 years, for Satan to work, to demonstrate his government, 6 days to work and be finished.

    Christ's righteousness is NEVER a cloak for unconfessed and unforsaken sin.

    It is only when the Old Man of sin is crucified with Christ and DEAD, will iniquity be purged:

    Isaiah 22:14 KJB - And it was revealed in mine ears by the LORD of hosts, Surely this iniquity shall not be purged from you till ye die, saith the Lord GOD of hosts.

    If you teach immortal soul/spirit theology, you are actually negating the true gospel of victory over all sin in Christ Jesus, and are still in "conversation" with your Old Man of Sin (1 John 3:4 KJB), and are practicing that abomination - NECROMANCY.

    Repent, and believe the real Gospel, Righteousness (right DOING, obedience to the Ten Commandments, especially the Fourth), by faith - Romans 5:19 KJB

    Are you ready to see if your Old Man of Sin is really DEAD? Now comes the messages to the very heart of the matter.
     
  5. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    John 11:25. 'Jesus said to [Martha], "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"'
    Luke 23:43. 'And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."'
     
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  6. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    I came across those arguments sixty years ago - one of our chemistry lecturers was a Christadelphian. also a fellow student.

    Solomon in Ecclesiastes is speaking apparently with authority, with God-given wisdom, so how can we question his assertions?

    Read Ecclesiastes 1 to see his basic premise - to explore by wisdom all that is done under heaven. ... under the sun.

    He is deliberately limiting his quest to what can be found by observation rather than divine revelation. He is reasoning like an atheist philosopher and comes to the conclusion - everything is meaningless.

    When he brings the Creator into consideration, his conclusion is - fear God..... and he also wrote Proverbs.
     
  7. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    Now read Ps 73. Asaph begins by considering the prosperity of the wicked, contrasted with the suffering of the upright.

    Then his thoughts turn to God, and the state of man after death. Not what Ecclesiastes reasoned - silence in the grave, but a sudden awakening in terror.

    As for the future of the godly in death - You guide me with your counsel, and afterwards you will take me into glory.

    You are reasoning like the Sadducees - Jesus assured them that God is God of the living - the God of Abraham ... Isaac ... and Jacob.
     
  8. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Ecclesiastes 12:7. 'Then the dust [i.e. the dead body] will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.'

    2 Corinthians 5:8. 'We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.'
     
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  9. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Did ye never read?

    1 Corinthians 15:36 KJB - [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

    This Jesus, even in Gethsemane...

    “... His decision is made. He will save man at any cost to Himself. He accepts His baptism of blood, that through Him perishing millions may gain everlasting life. He has left the courts of heaven, where all is purity, happiness, and glory, to save the one lost sheep, the one world that has fallen by transgression. And He will not turn from His mission. He will become the propitiation of a race that has willed to sin. His prayer now breathes only submission: “If this cup may not pass away from Me, except I drink it, Thy will be done.”

    Having made the decision, He fell dying to the ground from which He had partially risen. Where now were His disciples, to place their hands tenderly beneath the head of their fainting Master, and bathe that brow, marred indeed more than the sons of men? The Saviour trod the wine press alone, and of the people there was none with Him.

    But God suffered with His Son. Angels beheld the Saviour’s agony. They saw their Lord enclosed by legions of satanic forces, His nature weighed down with a shuddering, mysterious dread. There was silence in heaven. No harp was touched. Could mortals have viewed the amazement of the angelic host as in silent grief they watched the Father separating His beams of light, love, and glory from His beloved Son, they would better understand how offensive in His sight is sin. ...



    No way of escape was found for the Son of God… ” - The Desire of Ages, Page 693 -- Ellen G. White Writings

    There was no escape for Him, how shall we think the Old Man of Sin will escape the judgment of God?

    Psalm 48:14 KJB - For this God [is] our God for ever and ever: he will be our guide [even] unto death.

    Philippians 2:8 KJB - And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.​

    “... Why seek ye the living among the dead? ...” Christ Jesus cannot be found in anything the Old Man of Sin desires. We ought to seek the Living, among the Living.

    Those who are teaching the pagan immortal soul/spirit theology, are seconding the lie of Satan from the beginning, they have taken up the tenet of the school of the serpent:

    Genesis 3:4 KJB - And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
    Their old man of sin does not want to die, and their heart is deceiving them, as it is wicked, attempting to preserve SELF, rather than to preserve the Glory of God, His righteousness, His law.

    They will twist the scriptures [KJB] to suit their own desires, even using all manner of passages, given from God, against God, Romans 14 being one of the primary texts, among others.

    They think that they can use the scriptures [KJB] that have so far been thus cited, but, they [the persons] will be overthrown by them in their context
     
  10. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Acts 7

    59They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” 60Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” Having said this, he fell asleep.

    Stephen said "RECIEVE MY SPIRIT".

    Is he teaching spirit theology?


    Did Jesus Christ receive Stephen's spirit?
     
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  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Also, there are souls before throne of God in heaven in revelation, were they not there?
     
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  12. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    He didn't. '.....Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin' (Romans 6:6-7).
     
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  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He was already judged and death the death blow at the Cross!
     
  14. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Please have patience, as I shall come, as time allows, to each post and respond fully. I pray you read, study and research, for you are commanded to prove all things according to the scripture:

    Why the Baptists are denying their hard fought heritage, is a matter of prophecy, but nonetheless they have spoken truth in the past:

    General Baptists

    In his "Institutes of Ecclesiastical History" chancellor of the University of Gottingen, Johann L. von Mosheim records that the "General Baptists" where spread in large numbers over many of the provinces of England As one article of faith they held "that the soul, between death and the resurrection at the last day, has neither pleasure nor pain, but is in a state of insensibility." - [see Page 697] Mosheim's Institutes of Ecclesiastical History, Ancient and Modern
    Samuel Richardson (1633-1658)

    Pastor, First Particular Baptist Church, of London wrote a discourse entitled :

    "A Discourse on the Torments of Hell : The Foundations and Pillars therof discover'd, serch'd, shaken, and remov'd. With Infallible Proofs that there is not to be a punishment after this Life, for any to endure that shall never end" 1658 [see also Page 70 here, right hand top Column] - A Baptist Bibliography

    Just a sample of what is available ...

    The Bible from Genesis to Revelation teaches this, and even the reformation itself, from Martin Luther onward, until the time of the counter-reformation, taught these things, for they understood from cause to effect.
     
  15. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    One of us believes Paul, that is for certain:

    Notice Paul's use of the word "sleep" in 1 Corinthians 15:51 KJB, in relation to death (1st, not 2nd), even as Jesus had done, in relation to Lazarus in John 11:11 KJB, etc.

    Paul is referring to two groups in 1 Corinthians 15:51 KJB, [1] the "dead" (1st) in Christ who are in their "grave" (1 Corinthians 15:55 KJB, see also John 5:28 KJB) who will be resurrected at the "last trump" (1 Corinthians 15:52; 1 Thessalonians 4:16 KJB), having lain in their grave until their "change" (1 Corinthians 15:51,52; Job 14:14 KJB), from mortal to immortality, come at that time; and [2] the living saints who do not see death, and are still alive at the Second Advent of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:51,52, etc KJB).

    Please notice Paul's continual theme, "sleep", "death", "grave", & "mortal". John 14:1-4 KJB, Jesus comes back for us all, and we all go to Heaven (3rd) together at the same time (1 Thessalonians 4:17 KJB) (scriptural exceptions are Enoch, Elijah, Moses and first fruits resurrected that were taken with Jesus in His earlier ascension.; texts upon request).

    As for Thomas Aquinas, you do not actually believe him either, in full, but pick and choose, for instance he teaches in Summa, a literal 6 day creation and that Biblically, the 7th day is the Sabbath, and man changed the solemnity from the 7th day to the first (*), but more than this, he is out of harmony with God Himself, in regards the "soul", in that it can die, and is not immortal (Genesis 2:17; Job 33:22,28,30; Psalms 22:29, 30:3, 33:19, 40:14, 56:13, 63:9, 78:50; Proverbs 6:32; Ezekiel 8:4,20; Matthew 10:28; James 5:20; Revelation 16:3 KJB, etc).

    (*) Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica; Second Part of the Second Part; Question 122. The precepts of Justice. Article 4, Whether the third precept of the Decalogue, concerning the hallowing of the Sabbath, is fittingly expressed? (1920, 2nd Revised Ed.) NIHIL OBSTAT F. Innocentius Apap, OP, STM, Censor. Theol. IMPRIMATUR. Edus. Canonicus Surmont, Vicarious Generalis. Westminasterii. APPROBATIO. ORDONIS. NIHIL OBSTAT. F. Raphael Moss, OP, STL and F. Leo Moore, OP, STL. IMPRIMATUR. F. Beda Jarrett, OP, STL, AM, Prior Provincialis Angliae. MARIAE IMMACULATE - SEDI SAPIENTIAE from Kevin Knight New Advent.org -

    "... I answer that, ... Now the precepts of the decalogue are, so to speak, first and common principles of the Law, and consequently the third precept of the decalogue describes the exterior worship of God as the sign of a universal boon that concerns all. This universal boon was the work of the Creation of the world, from which work God is stated to have rested on the seventh day: and sign of this we are commanded to keep holy seventh day--that is, to set it aside as a day to be given to God. Hence after the precept about hallowing of the Sabbath the reason for it is given: "For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth ... and rested on the seventh day." ..."

    "... Reply to Objection 4. In the New Law the observance of the Lord's day took the place of the observance of the Sabbath, not by virtue of the precept but by the institution of the Church and the custom of Christian people ..."

    [[Please take careful notice who thinks (reasons) to have changed (Daniel 7:25 KJB) God's Law.]]

    See also Summa Theologica, Question 74, Article 3, Reply to Objection 6 and 7 [He begins by rebutting Augustine] -

    "... by the "evening" and the "morning" ... But, according to Basil (Hom. ii in Hexaem.), the entire period takes its name, as is customary, from its more important part, the day. An instance of this is found in the words of Jacob, "The days of my pilgrimage," where night is not mentioned at all. But the evening and the morning are mentioned as being the ends of the day, since day begins with morning and ends with evening, or because evening denotes the beginning of night, and morning the beginning of day. It seems fitting, also, that where the first distinction of creatures is described, divisions of time should be denoted only by what marks their beginning. And the reason for mentioning the evening first is that as the evening ends the day, which begins with the light, the termination of the light at evening precedes the termination of the darkness, which ends with the morning. But Chrysostum's explanation is that thereby it is intended to show that the natural day does not end with the evening, but with the morning (Hom. v in Gen.). ...

    ... Reply to Objection 7. The words "one day" are used when day is first instituted, to denote that one day is made up of twenty-four hours. Hence, by mentioning "one," the measure of a natural day is fixed. Another reason may be to signify that a day is completed by the return of the sun to the point from which it commenced its course. And yet another, because at the completion of a week of seven days, the first day returns ..."

    Therefore, as stated previously, the dead know not anything, and are in the grave (Job 14:21 KJB, etc), thus since you teach immortal soul/spirit theology, you do not practice in the life obedience to God's Ten Commandments, including the 4th (Exodus 20:8-11 KJB), the Holy seventh day the Sabbath of the Lord, but are still in transgression (1 John 3:4 KJB), for your old man of sin does not want to die, but rather live forever (Genesis 3:4 KJB), thus are 'first day', being unfinished, even denying the literal Creation in such a time as Genesis states. How long will it take for Him to re-create you?

    You are practicing Necromancy, but do not have to. In Christ Jesus you can cease from the old man of sin forever.
     
    #15 One Baptism, Jul 25, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2017
  16. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Mere assertions, starting with apriori view.

    Please go to Genesis, that book of foundations, seeds and beginnings, to see death and what happens therein, and all subsequent death thereafter:

    [God, even Jesus Himself said:]. Genesis 2:17 KJB - "... in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shall surely die."

    [["... in the day ...", see Genesis 5:1-5; 2 Peter 3:8 KJB, etc]]

    [Satan/Serpent said:]] Genesis 3:4 KJB - "... Ye shall not surely die."

    What are the wages of sin? Romans 6:23 KJB, death or life? Who lied from the beginning and is the father of lies (John 8:44 KJB)?

    How was mankind (even the first man, Adam) made? If we understand this, we will understand its undoing, its reversal.

    Genesis 2:7 KJB - And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    How was man made created?

    [1] The LORD God formed man of the dust of the earth...

    This agrees with all of the rest of scripture: Genesis 3:19,23, 18:27; Job 33:6; Psalms 103:14, 104:29; Ecclesiastes 3:20, 12:7; Isaiah 64:8; 1 Corinthians 15:47; etc.

    Man is dust, and returns to dust, and even Roman Catholicism acknowledges this fact every so-called Ash Wednesday, in saying, "Remember man that thou art dust and unto dust thou shalt return." - Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia, section A, Ash Wednesday CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Ash Wednesday

    Notice, "thou", the person themselves.

    [2] ... and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life ...

    The breath, the spirit, is His, not ours. This (the active agency) returns to the Life Giver, since we, the dust, are only the borrowers of His life, His breath, His spirit - Job 27:3, 33:4, 34:14; Psalms 104:3; Proverbs 22:7; Ecclesiastes 3:22, 8:8, 12:7, etc.

    The word "spirit" in scripture, in another use, is also synonymous to the heart, the mind, which I shall come to later.

    Therefore [1] + [2] = [3] the living soul (a whole unit/creature/person/being)

    [3] ... and man became a living soul.

    Notice the word "became". The text does not say that man was given a soul, or bequeathed a soul, but that he (the dust formed) and the breath (spirit) of God breathed into man's nostrils, made Adam to become a living being/soul/creature/person.

    To remove either [1] or [2], will undo [3] - life reversed, in other words, death.

    No created being is innately immortal (1 Timothy 6:16 KJB), but Adam and Eve began with conditional immortality, in other words, as long as they obeyed God, they would have access to the tree of life (type of Christ Jesus), and would have lived forever, but because they disobeyed, they were separated from the tree of life (though given the Gospel, Genesis 3:15 KJB), and cast out, unable to eat from the tree of life and live forever; which is what Satan had wanted, immortalized sinners.

    Adam and Eve and the whole race of mankind in them, should have perished forever, except that as soon as there was a sinner, there was a Saviour, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Jesus, by promise, stepped in between the guilty party and the Father, foreshadowing the great sacrifice to come. Jesus split death into two, a (1st) sleep in the grave and 2nd (annihilation).

    There will never be immortalized sinners, for the sanctuary, Psalms 77:13 KJB, teaches the destruction of the wicked, Psalms 73:17 KJB, but even from the beginning, we see the wages of sin is suffering unto death, never life.

    Satan himself and all wicked will finally be brought to ashes, perished and gone forever, Malachi 4:3; Revelation 20:9-10,14-15, etc.

    It is the righteous who will dwell with everlasting burnings - Isaiah 33:14 KJB

    More on this in a bit, detailed from Genesis to Revelation.

    John 3:16 KJB sums this up beautifully.

    Do a study on the word "hell" in the KJB, and even the English language as a secondary:

    It is connected to the "grave", "pit', lower parts of earth where things rot, are covered with worms, eaten up in destruction, subduction by fires of the earth, see 2 Samuel 22:6; Job 26:6; Psalms 16:10, 18:5, 139:8 (connect to Job 17:13 KJB, etc), Isaiah 28:18; Ezekiel 31:16, etc.

    Even a dictionary, Like Webster's 1828 (though the Bible, KJB is the final authority) will give the basic meaning of hell, meaning a pit, the grave, a dark storage place or burial in the earth, dungeon or prison.

    Even old uses of the word give the meaning, "We went helling for potatoes."

    To teach that God has a place where He must, by miracle, eternally sustain sinners, to writhe, blaspheme in unending agony, is to foist upon God the character of Satan. God came to put sin and sinners to an end, not to sustain it and them eternally.

    Immortal soul/spirit theology is paganism, even platonic dualism, as the RC Encyclopedia defines. Look for yourself, but if you want me to quote it, I will, just ask.

    "Dives", you mean the "rich man", in the Parable of Luke 16, who represents apostate Judah (who had five brothers of the same mother), even Laodicea (Revelation 3).

    I will come back to this separately, demonstrating from the text itself, that it is a parable, and identify the symbols therein, and its teaching from the text of scripture (KJB) itself, as it would be too long here in this response. Begin in the context of Luke 14.

    ... To be continued ...
     
    #16 One Baptism, Jul 26, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  17. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Please read Isaiah 63:16 in context,

    Isaiah 63:16 KJB - Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

    This text has nothing to say of Abraham dwelling in heaven, it has to do with the peoples having gone astray from the faith of Abraham, of Israel, their forefathers of faith, thus the temple was to be destroyed. Yet they are claiming not physical descendancy, but spiritual birth, by God, and that He Himself gave birth to the nation.

    For Abraham, and where he is, see Genesis 25:8,10, 49:31; Hebrews 11:10,13,39-40. He is in the grave, awaiting the last trump, and the voice of the Son of God, to awaken him from the grave, and sleep therein, to the resurrection of the just - John 14:1-4 KJB, etc.

    By so saying, At least you agree that the witch of Endor did not actually bring the real Samuel back, as so many here seem to think.

    The dead cannot be contacted for the reason that they are dead-asleep, in the graves, tombs, earth, etc. knowing nothing, even their love, hatred and envy perished, even their very thoughts having perished in the day they died (texts already cited).

    If Abraham were in heaven (which he isn't, except by name only in the book of Life), in glorified body, he would not be ignorant of the things of earth, even as the glorified and translated Elijah and glorified and resurrected Moses are not ignorant of the things in earth, having even come back to it from the heavenly worlds. Revelation declares that the beings in heaven know exactly what is transpiring, and Hebrews shows that such a "cloud of witnesses" (unfallen worlds) from the beginning watch, for even the angels desire to look into these things.

    The teaching of the immortal soul/spirit theology destroys the Everlasting Gospel, negates God's clear sentence, removes the reason for the resurrections, second Advent, etc., and causes people to practice Necromancy in more ways than one and teaches that God will sustain Satan and sinners in an eternal torment by miracle of God, so that they continue blaspheming God forever, and vaporizes the real Temple, Throne, Ark and Ten Commandments in Heaven, and etherealizes the reward of the righteous into gaseous non-entities, of no substance. They could not even describe such a place or persons without borrowing from the real.

    I will quote something in respect to this a little later.
     
    #17 One Baptism, Jul 26, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  18. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    OK, who then dwells with everlasting burnings, according to the scripture (KJB)?

    Answer: Not the wicked, but the righteous.

    John 3:16 KJB.

    The righteous will eternally dwell with God, who is "a Spirit" (John 4:24 KJB), and "the Holy Spirit" the fullness of "fire" (Acts 2:3; Revelation 1:4, 4:5 KJB), thus we will dwell with "everlasting burnings" (Isaiah 33:14 KJB), God is a "consuming fire" (to sin, sinners; and of "love"; Deuteronomy 4:24, 9:3; Hebrews 12:29; 1 John 4:8,16 KJB) and a "fire goeth before Him" (Psalms 97:3 KJB) which "shall devour before Him" (Psalms 50:4 KJB) and "he burned against Jacob like a flaming fire" (Lamentations 2:3 KJB) and for those whom He loves He is a "wall of fire round about" (Zechariah 2:5 KJB) and His "ministers a flame of fire" (Psalms 104:4; Hebrews 1:7 KJB) and His "tongue as a devouring fire" (Isaiah 30:7 KJB), His speech "fire" (2 Samuel 22:9; Psalms 18:8; Jeremiah 20:8; Acts 2:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:8 KJB), His "eyes ... as a flame of fire" (Revelation 1:14, 2:18, 19:12 KJB), His "face as the sun" and His "feet a pillar of fire" (Matthew 17:2; 2 Corinthians 4:6; Revelation 1:5, 2:18, 10:1 KJB), for He is a "refiners fire" (Malachi 3:2 KJB) having a "throne of fire" (Psalms 89:36; Daniel 7:9; Ezekiel 1:26-28; Revelation 4:5 KJB). His Ten Commandments a "fiery law" (Deuteronomy 33:2; Ezekiel 28:14,16 KJB), He being the "sun of righteousness" (Psalms 84:11; Malachi 4:2 KJB) and it is they (the righteous) who have the victory over sin, satan and self, who will stand upon the sea of glass mingled "with fire" (Revelation 15:2 KJB), and will be as the burning bush which was not consumed (Exodus 3:3 KJB), for He is "Light" (Genesis 1; John 1; 2 Corinthians 4:4-6 KJB), even the Light of all, and in Him is no darkness.

    However, the wicked are never to have immortality, for they are to be burnt up unto smoke and ashes at the meeting out of judgment, and are to perish, and be gone forever: Job 20:26,29, 31:2-3; Psalms 7:9, 9:17, 11:6, 21:9, 37:10,20,28,38, 68:2, 69:28, 75:8,10, 97:7,9, 104:35, 106:18, 112:10, 145:29; Proverbs 2:22, 10:25,28,30, 12:7, 13:9, 14:11, 24:20; Ezekiel 18:4,20; Isaiah 13:9, 66:17,24; Nahum 1:10; Obadiah 1:16; Zephaniah 1:2-3; Matthew 10:28; John 3:16; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 6:8; James 1:15; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 20:9, 21:4, etc. KJB

    Jesus is coming soon with the rewards. Revelation 22:12 KJB to give to every man according to his work ...
     
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  19. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Is the member who started the OP advocating annihilation? That the soul of the lost just burns up and is no more? His posts are so jumbled I can't make heads or tails of what he trying to espouse.

    ETA: NVM, I saw his last post. He is advocating annihilation. :(
     
  20. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    FYI, annihilation teachings have been deemed heresy.
     
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