What you say last is true. But IF repentance doesn't come first, THEN you will not receive faith.
As I have commented before, the faith we receive is on account of seeing things God's way and receiving the Holy Spirit indwelling. You seem to make "election" and God the cause of indwelling -- I make repentance and God the cause thereof. Now you might counter "effectual calling" but that is secondary to "election" as a cause.
I can see where it all would be over in a minute. But, to me, God isn't "giving away" the Spirit. You cite a cause and I cite a cause fo God to give Him. Acts 2:38 (among others) says repent ... receive the Holy Spirit. Where does the Bible say be elect ... receive the Spirit or receive the Spirit ... be elect?
skypair
Intro to Lordship Salvation- Reviewed
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Lou Martuneac, Dec 19, 2007.
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Your blackeyed peas recipe sounds like a winner!!!
peace to you in the New Year:praying: -
I'm not sure how you read election as the cause of making a decision for Christ in my description. I don't mean to say that at all. Quite the opposite. I'm simply saying that I believe that the Holy Spirit acts on the human heart to aid in a free will decision. I would differentiate this from indwelling of the Holy Spirit which comes later but cannot be separated from the decision for Christ. -
peace to you:praying: -
To tell you the truth I don't pretend to understand the involvement of the Holy Spirit in the salvation decision. I don't know why some people chose life and others choose death. Anyone who says they completely understand this process are claiming to understand the mind and ways of God. Do you claim to understand that? -
One thing that I often say is that the more I learn, the more I realize how little I understand. That said, God has revealed some things concerning this work of Holy Spirit.
For instance, in John 3, God's Word reveals to us that those who are born again are born again according to the will of Holy Spirit, not the will of man.
In John 1, God's Word reveals to us that those who believe and are given the right to become chidren of God, do so by the will of God, not by the will of man.
Jesus said, "My sheep hear My voice and I call them by name" and "they follow Me". It is clear, then, that all the Father has given for salvation will come and believe. The reason is, God is the author of salvation from beginning to end.
I believe in the sovereignty of God in the salvation of man. I believe salvation is a work of Almighty God, that even faith is a gift of God's grace.(Eph.2)
There are those who trust in the sovereignty of man in salvation, and have stated so clearly.
So, since I believe the sovereignty of God in the salvation of man, I can say that I do not believe Holy Spirt would fail in His work to "aid" someone in coming to salvation.
peace to you:praying: -
From our perspective, however, I'm not sure that it makes any difference. Personally, I recognize that both sides of this question are supported by scripture. My belief is that the really important thing is tp accept Christ and abide in Him irregardless of the process. It might be through election or through free will or both. All Calvinists except hypercalvinists believe that the preaching of the word is necessary for salvation. Who knows for certain whether they are one of the elect? Who really knows whether Christ's atonement was limited?
I'll put my faith in my Savior and let God handle the rest. -
God regenerates us, transforms our very natures, so that we can see the truth of the gospel and Jesus Christ and respond with repentance and faith (that repentance and faith, too, is a gift of God's grace)
So, it is our decision, and we make it for Christ, but we do so because of the work God has already done in our lives. God is sovereign, and man responds to God's work.
peace to you:praying: -
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The second is how God brings us to maturity in our faith. Even though we have indwelling Holy Spirit, we are still sheep, and sheep are pretty stupid and slow to learn. And we still are affected by sin, those around us, and our own fallen natures.
Whereas before our salvation we sinned without remorse toward God, with indwelling Holy Spirit, our sin grieves Holy Spirit, who convicts us. God disciplines us, and we learn to be more like Him.
So, you see, our maturity is also a response to the work of God in our lives. God is still sovereign and man still responds.
Happy New Year, webdog:1_grouphug:
peace to you:praying: -
Mr
So if you have the option of whether or not to worship and glorify God, wouldn't an imperfect human being who will continue to sin, most often choose not to do so? If all his actions are predestined what is the difference between one of the elect and the pulpit I described? You say that those of the reformed position do not like this characterization but you didn't provide any real argument to refute it other than to say that being a pulpit is acceptable to you. -
His salvation is predestined. God certainly knows all of his actions, before he does them, and God causes all things to work together for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose.
So, God, knowing the actions of every person before they do them, causes all things to work together for good......so intervening in the lives of men so as to bring about His desired will, which is the salvation of His sheep.
BTW, I said being the puppet of Almighty God was an acceptable alternative to being the master of my own destiny. Would you rather be the master of your own destiny?
When you pray, do you pray that God not intervene in your life so you can be the master of your own destiny?
When you pray for loved ones to come to the salvation found in Jesus Christ, do you ask Almighty God not to intervene in their lives, not to violate their ''free-will", but rather let them be the masters of their own destinies?
I'm going to guess that is not how you pray.
peace to you:praying:
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