Is a little alcohol alright with the Bible?

I don't think most of our non-Canadian friends know what Tim Horton's is. They don't know what they're missing....

It sounds to me like what you really abhor is alcohol *abuse*. We all agree that abuse, of alcohol or anything, is wrong.

 

Jim1999 said:

When Spurgeon noticed a sign in a tobacconist shop: The cigars that Spurgeon smokes......he quit smoking cigars. He believed his testimony for his Lord was more valuable than that. (Taken from his biography)

This is a myth. In fact Spurgeon never gave up his cigars until his later years, when his failing health (not related to smoking; he suffered from gout) caught up with him.

See "Spurgeon's Love of Fine Cigars" for more info.

The world does not say, "He drinks one beer...." It says, "He drinks beer and is a baptist..." Sorry, I cannot be a part of that.

I do not find it to be my personal responsibility to live according to the world's erroneous beliefs about Christian living.

I have nothing but disdain for those who promote this barbarous excuse for liquid refreshment.

If you do not wish to partake in what the Scripture calls a blessing, that is your prerogative. If you wish to counsel others not to partake for various reasons not having specifically to do with Biblical injunctions, that too is your prerogative provided you are not cloaking your preference in the guise of Scriptural rules.

However, since God through the Scripture commends wine for many uses, I do not believe you have the right to call it "barbarous."

[ September 23, 2002, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: Ransom ]

 

Brother BrianT !!

Doughnuts, huh?!!

I can go to Krispy Kreme and get me a dozen of those babies--throw them over in the cab of my pick-up--get in, start driving, open the box, start eating, ride up to a Mississippi road block where the Trooper is waiting to see my driver's license--he can look over and see those 1/2 dozen doughnuts left and not say a word--I can offer him one out of that open container--and when we're through "chit-chattin" he'll say to me, "Have a good day, Blackbird!"

On the other hand--if I drive drinkin'--and I happen to drive up to his road block and he sees what ought not to be there--he'll say, "Brother Blackbird! You have a right to remain silent . . .!

I'm more in control of my mind after eating just one nibble of that do-nut than you are after just one sip of that booze!

Your friend,
Blackbird

 

Yes, doughnuts. Different abuses have different consequences. Different consequences due to abuse does not mean one is therefore good and the other is therefore bad.

But I brought up doughnuts because your point was about the hypocrisy of harm done to the body, a point which you either sidestepped or just didn't get.

As one sip of wine does not alter my control of my mind, either you don't understand "abuse", or you are insulting me. Either way, you prove your own statement false.

[ September 23, 2002, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: BrianT ]

 

My statement is true to those who know it to be true! Every sip of alcohol ingested(whether you believe it or not) means that the alcohol will eventually make it to your brain(control center) and will take over that portion of your judgment--however so slight--its still so!

That's why I say I am more in control after eating just one nibble of the do-nut than you are after sipping one sip of that booze.

Your friend,
Blackbird

PS--I'm just waiting on ole 'cynic to come prowlin' in and read! He must be on vacation or something!

 

No that I agree, but what is the point? I am in more control of my mind while shoplifting than you are while sleeping. Therefore: shoplifting = good, sleep = sin?

[ September 23, 2002, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: BrianT ]

 

BriannT,
Actually, when I am sleeping my mind is in control of my body like never before. My mind just goes on being in control whether I am aware of it or not while I am sleeping! I cannot commit a sin while I am sleeping!

You as a shoplifter, on the other hand are not in control--you've made your mind up to 'lift and now you're going to go forth with that decision. Dumb, dumb, dumb decision! Sin now controls that area of your mind! So, put that socket wrench down, put that paint brush down, you are on your way to getting caught!

I've never heard of anyone being arrested for sleepin'! Have you? In fact, sleeping is biblical! The Bible says, "Thou has given thy beloved sleep!" But it also says that "wine is a mocker and strong drink is raging and whoso is deceived thereby is not wise!" Bless the Lord Jesus--I'm going to my grave a wise man!!

But I tell you what! I'll challenge you to the same experiment I challenged ole 'Cynic to! Pistols and rifles at paper targets over at my place! You bring your six pack of Bud or Pabst's and I'll bring a dozen fresh, hot Krispy Kreme's! After each shot I'll eat a little bit of my do-nut and you take a little "pull" from that long neck--we'll keep it up for a period of time until you finish your six pack and I finish my do-nuts--then we'll tally the score. If you win--I have to swear off of do-nuts(or any other sugared products like Honey Buns, Bear Claws, Twisters, etc.)! If I win--you have to swear off of booze any form! Fair enough??!! I mean, we'll just put our little theories to the test!

But I'm gonna say that before you get through with your six-pack that you won't be able to hit the state of Texas with the best Atom bomb the US Army has--much less hit a little black dot about the size of a fifty cent piece at twenty steps!

Your always sober friend,
Blackbird

 

Blackbird,

Small amounts of alcohol are metabolized long before they reach your brain!

It is also FAR safer than most medications on the market today. In medicinal amounts...

Edit: want to add something. Studies show that one teaspoonful of sugar results in significant weakening of strength within about 30 seconds.

If you are going to go shooting or something, lay off the sugar!

[ September 23, 2002, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: Helen ]

 

There are several biographies of Charles Spurgeon. Which one is this story from?

I hear you guys say that all the time, but, honestly, I've never known a pagan to care one way or the other.

Slante!

Mike

 

Do you even know what you're talking about? Or are you just talking so it looks like you have something to say?

Save your challenge for someone else. You're completely missing the point, and I refuse to be dragged into your little games. Besides, I have never drank a beer (and I'm not about to start just for you) and I don't shoot guns either.

 

BrianT,
I believe you are under so much conviction about the downfalls of alcohol on this Fundamental thread--that you don't know how to have fun!! I'm proving my point(Redneck/Cajun style)that yielding control to alcohol is done a sip at a time and a minute at a time! And you are way up north of the Mason/Dixon line! I should have known I can't seriously kid around with anyone living north of Memphis! Sorry, buddy! Go your way and I'll still be your friend!

Your friend,
Blackbird

 

After a day of backpackin, one can be pretty sore. A bit of Kahluah in your coffee will ease the pain a lot quicker, and more effectively, than asprin.

Funny, after all my problems with drugs and addiction, I have no problem with only drinking one or two beers.

I like good beer. I probably always will. I see nothing wrong with beer, and the only argument against it is the one Eric B put up, about causing one's brother to stumble.

I wouldn't invite a brand new Christian to have a cold one with me. But I have had some pretty good discussions about the Bible with my brother Timmy, over a beer or two.

 

posted September 23, 2002 03:42 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim1999 said:

When Spurgeon noticed a sign in a tobacconist shop: The cigars that Spurgeon smokes......he quit smoking cigars. He believed his testimony for his Lord was more valuable than that. (Taken from his biography)

This is a myth. In fact Spurgeon never gave up his cigars until his later years, when his failing health (not related to smoking; he suffered from gout) caught up with him

OK, I am ready to concede on this one. My quote was taken from a rather old biography, but there are many others that tell the other story. I did read the news reports about this question and figured they were typical Brit rag reports....we Brits have this thing about reporting weird things in our rags (newspapers).

My views on alcohol remain the same.

My brother, who loves his beer, came to help me with a plastering job. I actually bought a case of his favourite beer, cooled it and presented it to him. He refused it and was disgusted that I had even bought it. I ended up giving it to a neighbour. This was more than 40 years ago and I have never entered a liquor shop since.

I don't want to give the impression that I am a prude on this matter, but I do have a hatred for alcohol....for the reasons stated more than anything.

Cheers in the Lord,

Jim

 

You believe wrong. Why do you always try to make things personal?

 

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheers in the Lord,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Smoke-eater,
Cheers is the most common form of greeting, no more, no less.

Jim

 

It is so silly to use the Bible’s O.K. to drink wine to validate our excess. Did Jesus turn water into wine? Yes He did! Folks back then would not know what to do with it if He turned water in to Roil Crown Cola.

We are free! We can drink what we want. We can drink ourselves stupid if we want to. Chances are no one will ever accuse you of being a man of God after seeing you staggering about, drooling on your shoes tote’n a jug of shine. But you are free to do that.

I am sure that there are those who drink wine on occasion. Some have medicinal reasons to drink. Too often there are those who are willing to cheapen their testimony with a “casual” drink or a beer with the boys.

When it is time for dinner we have more to choose from. I like Kool Aid or ice tea. Give this country boy some buttermilk! You may never hear an accuser of saying, “Look at that preacher / Sunday School teacher / Bus Captain / Deacon / Godly Church going Holy Roller over there drinking that Dr. Pepper! He calls himself a Christian!”

Sure we can drink. But why would we even want to? Someone is watching you to day. Is it better to stay away from those things that are questionable and protect your testimony? How we behave / The choices we make / The things we do or say may mean life or eternal death to some one watching you. People around us want to know if God is real. The only way they can tell is in how well we reflect God’s glory into this dark dark world.

 

T4T, No one here is using the Bible to "validate our excess". In fact, all of us who believe that a little wine (or beer) is OK have condemned excessive drinking.

Yes they would. They'd have asked Him to turn the bread into Moon Pies (for those of you from the North, RC Cola and Moon Pies are one of our proudest Southern traditions).

No, we can't. the Bible soundly condemns such behavior.

I don't feel that it's cheapened my testimony (whatever that is). The Christians I hang out with don't feel that it's hurt my testimony. Most importantly, the pagans I hang out with don't seem to feel that it hurts my testimony.

No, but then again, I've never heard that about someone who drinks beer or wine in moderation, either.

It tastes good.

My testimony is rock solid: Jesus has saved me from my sins and through His atoning death and subsequesnt resurection, has assuerd me eternal life.

My testimony isn't about me, it's about Him.

Oh, please. You're just a sinner saved by grace, nothing more. Let's all get over ourselves.

That I agree with. So lets drop this petty and pointless argument and get out there and show the world some grace.

BREAK!

Mike

 

Well, I am hardly PRO drinking (that makes it sound like I try to convince others to drink)--I have perhaps 3 of so glasses of wine per year, and never more than one at any single occasion.

It isn't needful (if by that you mean necessary), but I do find it particularly appropriate at meals celebrating God's goodness to us, like Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc, since I think that it is one of God's good gifts and that in celebration of God's provision is one of the ways it is used in scripture.

How do I keep from causing a brother to stumble? Well, if I know that someone has had any sort of drinking problem in the past, I would never offer a glass of wine to them, or serve it at a meal they eat with me. And you will never be offered more than one glass of wine at my house.

 

Murph asked:

Why is it needful . . .

Your question presupposes an unproven assumption, to wit, that what is right is what is needful.

If that were truly the case, then I would be sinning every time I fired up my kitchen gadgetry to concoct an elaborate meal for myself. After all, I can survive just fine on a small bowl of rice, a few raw vegetables and fruits, maybe a glass of milk and occasionally some meat.

It isn't needful that I spend any more time washing, slicing, cooking, or seasoning my food than is absolutely necessary to ensure that I meet my nutritional needs and don't poison myself. And yet no one would argue that I am sinning if I go through the unnecessary steps of turning raw ingredients into a spicy pasta dish for no other reason than the pleasure it gives me to prepare and consume my food in that form.

And so it is with alcohol. Wine may not be needful, but it is pleasurable, and it is said to be one of God's many blessings to man that may be lawfully enjoyed in moderation. I do not need a pragmatic reason to drink; it has divine approbation, and that is sufficient for me.

and why is it worth the risk of offending a brother?

I believe this risk is often overstated by well-intentioned people who are trying to make the case against alcohol stronger than it really is.

In speaking of meat sacrificed to idols, Paul says it may be openly and freely bought and consumed, no questions asked, even right there in the heathen temple (1 Cor. 10:25-27, 8:10). He does address the possibility of being seen by a weaker brother, but his advice is to "beware," not to "abstain" (8:9-10) for his sake. Paul warns us not to flaunt our liberty with no regard to the consequences to others, but on the other hand he does not tell us to curtail our liberty completely for their sake. Rather, he says to practice discretion.

[ September 24, 2002, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: Ransom ]