NONE here put him on the Cross, ONLY jesus qualifies for that!
NONE have him an Apostle either!
is calvinism based upon John Calvin, Or Upon Jesus And the Gospel?
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Yeshua1, May 29, 2013.
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HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Bro. James said: ↑When two do not agree, they both cannot be right. They could both be wrong.
What is the standard? The holy fathers and post Reformation commentators are all in the same category: subject to human error from their depravity. Yep, Augustine and Chauvin were not infallible. They were also pedobaptists.
Why do many insist on putting extraneous biblical doctrine on the same level as the whole counsel of the infallible Word of God?
The fact that Jon Chauvin, aka John Calvin, was a pedobaptist, a practice he got from his childhood religion, should tell us he is not worthy of a pedestal.
There is only one worthy-- we crucified Him.
Even so, come Lord Jesus.
Bro. JamesClick to expand...
CALVINISM. Calvin's Institutes, Westminster Confession, Belgium Confession, Philadelphia Confession, Saturday Morning Mass Confession (oops, sorry that's Catholic, but my what a remarkable resemblance).
Fundamental Baptists: THE BIBLE. -
DrJamesAch said: ↑What are the standards?
CALVINISM. Calvin's Institutes, Westminster Confession, Belgium Confession, Philadelphia Confession, Saturday Morning Mass Confession (oops, sorry that's Catholic, but my what a remarkable resemblance).
Fundamental Baptists: THE BIBLE.Click to expand... -
HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite Supportersaturneptune said: ↑You are quite a paradox. How can you be so right on the character of Calvin and Baptist distinctives, and so wrong on sovereignty?Click to expand...
How is it that YOU "GET-IT" about the Universal Church and the character of Calvin............and yet you STILL are "Calvinist" in Soteriology?
You understand the "Baptist Distinctives" and yet you believe a view of Soteriology not normally connected with "baptists" or their distinctives........
S.N...............You are as paradoxical as Dr. J. is......
:wavey: -
I beg your pardons, I am not a pterodactyl :)
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite SupporterDrJamesAch said: ↑I beg your pardons, I am not a pterodactyl :)Click to expand...
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HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite SupporterEarth said: ↑Click to expand...
You are an "encourager"........ and you act thus.
I appreciate you.
One day (despite your status as a Yankee) I would love to toast your posts with a cool glass of Chimay "Trappist Ale"!...
I "LIKE" a lot of people on this board..........I've never met someone I would rather have a beer with than you!
God Bless you Brother! :godisgood: -
HeirofSalvation said: ↑LOL........because he's not "wrong" on "Sovereignty"..............I might ask you the SAME question......
How is it that YOU "GET-IT" about the Universal Church and the character of Calvin............and yet you STILL are "Calvinist" in Soteriology?
You understand the "Baptist Distinctives" and yet you believe a view of Soteriology not normally connected with "baptists" or their distinctives........
S.N...............You are as paradoxical as Dr. J. is......
:wavey:Click to expand... -
HeirofSalvation said: ↑"Castellio" was a "Primary" source....and that is defined as someone who was immediately and directly involved in the situation.Click to expand...
Calvin stood as Servetus's "accuser"....it was his "expert witness" which was used to condemn him........instead of staying in prison (as Genevan law required) he levelled his accusations by proxy........thus having someone ELSE stay in prison during the outcome of the trial.
That is historic fact.......and you will NOT respond to it......you will ignore it.Click to expand...
Quoting from Jean Cadier's book The Man God Mastered,on page 159 it relates the following:"He [Servetus] was recognized amongst the congregation by some of the faithful,denounced to the criminal lieutenant and arrested. A complaint was lodged against him by Calvin's secretary,Nicolas de la Fontaine who,in accordance with the genevan law,was imprisoned at the same time as the man he had accused." -
HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite Supportersaturneptune said: ↑One does not have to think Calvin was a saint to believe in God's sovereignty. Also, believing in God's sovereignty does not go counter to Baptist distinctives. Maybe you failed the matching test.Click to expand...
"Sovereignty" is the only concept in Theology proper which you still fail to comprehend my brother :)
Once you get the "Sovereignty" facet of God's attributes........................................
you'll actually drop the rest of the Calvinist assertions like a bad habit. You weren't born to be a "Calvinist".....your whole soul screams against it.
The problem is.......
That Calvinist Polemicists have taught you that God's "Sovereignty" is only rightly expressed within the Calvinist schema. That's not true. It never was. If the Calvinist view is correct..............it has NOTHING to do with "Sovereignty" as a facet of God's being.........It has EVERYTHING to do with God's NATURE . The non-Calvinist argument has NOTHING to do with "Sovereignty"......it has EVERYTHING to do with properly defining God's Nature.
I encourage you to watch this full link from Jerry Walls which defines the issue in terms of "Sovereignty" and yet exposes the mistake the Calvinist schema makes with regard to God's character.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Daomzm3nyIg
Winman's link was outstanding..........and Jerry Wall's post will be repeatedly posed against Calvinists until it is responded to correctly...........
It WON'T go away. -
Yet another falsehood
Yeshua1 said: ↑have you ever asked why the sovereignty of God bothers you so much, and why free will is so appealing?Click to expand...
Misdirection, misinformation, distortion, deception, are the stock and trade of Yeshua1. He disparages others using fictional charges in post after post after post.
Folks, scriptural truth is appealing, and it denies we are always free to choose Christ, we can become hardened and lose what limited spiritual ability we have. We need cultivation, planting and watering to trust fully in Christ. So scripture teaches limited spiritual ability, and even that can be lost.
One thing is certain, Calvinism is not based on what scripture says, it is based on unwarranted extrapolations of scripture. Scripture says no one seeks God. Calvinism rewrites it to say, no one seeks God at any time. Never mind Paul saying the Jews were seeking God through works.
Calvinism says our election for salvation was unconditional. However, 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says our election for salvation was through faith in the truth.
Calvinism says Christ did not die for all mankind, yet scripture says He laid down His life as a ransom for all.
Calvinism says the call is through irresistible grace, and once called nothing can prevent a person from coming to faith. However Matthew 23:13 has men entering heaven, who are then blocked by false teachers presenting false doctrine.
Calvinism is based on the inventions of men as they speculated and expanded the range and scope of biblical truth. Speculation is the mother of mistaken doctrine. We should ask ourselves, what is the least scripture could be saying and not add to it. -
HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite SupporterRippon said: ↑No,he wasn't a primary source. He was banned from Geneva 9 years before the Servetus incident.Click to expand...
So What??..................Who Banned him? Calvin???????? DUH..............of course Calvin banned him........what else is new?
I've quoted Primary source after Primary source to you..........from Calvin, (who was there) to Castellio............
and yet you appeal to people who lived HUNDREDS of years after....
You aren't smart......you are an annoying flea who who has obfuscated a reasonable understanding of history. -
HeirofSalvation said: ↑You don't understand the discipline of "history" it appears............"Historically" as a legitimate Academic Discipline considers "Castellio" a "Primary" source...........you deny that truth by claiming that he was "banned" from Geneva 9 years earlier????Click to expand...
HoS has obfuscated a reasonable understanding of history.Click to expand... -
Winman posted...
The doctrines of Calvinism are based on the Bible. Any honest person would say that even if they disagree with the interpretations.
No, Calvinism ASSUMES it is true, and simply cherry picks scripture to support it's assumption, ignoring and rejecting volumes of scripture that contradicts and refutes it.
Much of Calvinism cannot be found in the scriptures whatsoever, such as Total Inability. There is not one word of scripture that says God cursed man's moral nature so that he is compelled to do evil and cannot choose good. ZERO.
Calvinism twists, perverts, and redefines scripture. For example, Calvinism redefines much scripture that says Jesus died for ALL men, redefining ALL to mean only the ELECT.Click to expand...
Absolutely. Agree 100% Calvinism is overflowing with false teaching and heretical doctrine. -
DrJamesAch said: ↑What are the standards?
CALVINISM. Calvin's Institutes, Westminster Confession, Belgium Confession, Philadelphia Confession, Saturday Morning Mass Confession (oops, sorry that's Catholic, but my what a remarkable resemblance).
Fundamental Baptists: THE BIBLE.Click to expand... -
HeirofSalvation said: ↑No............they don't have to.
"Sovereignty" is the only concept in Theology proper which you still fail to comprehend my brother :)
Once you get the "Sovereignty" facet of God's attributes........................................
you'll actually drop the rest of the Calvinist assertions like a bad habit. You weren't born to be a "Calvinist".....your whole soul screams against it.
The problem is.......
That Calvinist Polemicists have taught you that God's "Sovereignty" is only rightly expressed within the Calvinist schema. That's not true. It never was. If the Calvinist view is correct..............it has NOTHING to do with "Sovereignty" as a facet of God's being.........It has EVERYTHING to do with God's NATURE . The non-Calvinist argument has NOTHING to do with "Sovereignty"......it has EVERYTHING to do with properly defining God's Nature.
I encourage you to watch this full link from Jerry Walls which defines the issue in terms of "Sovereignty" and yet exposes the mistake the Calvinist schema makes with regard to God's character.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Daomzm3nyIg
Winman's link was outstanding..........and Jerry Wall's post will be repeatedly posed against Calvinists until it is responded to correctly...........
It WON'T go away.Click to expand... -
Van said: ↑Yeshua1 simply makes us falsehoods and posts them. God's sovereignty is something to worship and adore. So Yeshua1 claims it bothers me. Fiction on top of fiction.
Misdirection, misinformation, distortion, deception, are the stock and trade of Yeshua1. He disparages others using fictional charges in post after post after post.
Folks, scriptural truth is appealing, and it denies we are always free to choose Christ, we can become hardened and lose what limited spiritual ability we have. We need cultivation, planting and watering to trust fully in Christ. So scripture teaches limited spiritual ability, and even that can be lost.
One thing is certain, Calvinism is not based on what scripture says, it is based on unwarranted extrapolations of scripture. Scripture says no one seeks God. Calvinism rewrites it to say, no one seeks God at any time. Never mind Paul saying the Jews were seeking God through works.
Calvinism says our election for salvation was unconditional. However, 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says our election for salvation was through faith in the truth.
Calvinism says Christ did not die for all mankind, yet scripture says He laid down His life as a ransom for all.
Calvinism says the call is through irresistible grace, and once called nothing can prevent a person from coming to faith. However Matthew 23:13 has men entering heaven, who are then blocked by false teachers presenting false doctrine.
Calvinism is based on the inventions of men as they speculated and expanded the range and scope of biblical truth. Speculation is the mother of mistaken doctrine. We should ask ourselves, what is the least scripture could be saying and not add to it.Click to expand...
Again, what about God being soveregn "bugs you" so much? -
Alive in Christ said: ↑Winman posted...
Absolutely. Agree 100% Calvinism is overflowing with false teaching and heretical doctrine.Click to expand...
You can say that we misunderstand the bible, but NOT that we are heretics, as that suppossses not really saved! -
HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite SupporterYeshua1 said: ↑is there ANYTHING taht ever happened in history that God did not either do Himself, or permit others to do, and still retaincontrol over what they did nd said, yet still they chose to freely do it?Click to expand...
It's the sheer stupidity in the portion I bolded which has absolutely NO Biblical merit.
The portion I bolded is ONLY submitted by stupid or deceptive people Yeshua.........
That's the part which is a lie.
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