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Is Christianity Accessible to All People?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Feb 2, 2018.

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  1. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    In a recently-closed thread, @SheepWhisperer asked, "If someone cannot possibly access something that is "available", how then is it "available" to save them?"

    I would like to ask a similar question in two parts: 1) Can someone believe in Jesus if he has never heard of Jesus? 2) How many people have lived and died without ever hearing the gospel of Jesus?

    Any and all Free-Willies, please respond. Looking forward to it.
     
    #1 thatbrian, Feb 2, 2018
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  2. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    1.) No. Romans 10 makes a statement and asks a series of questions. The statement is: "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” The questions that follow are: How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? How are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? How are they to hear without someone preaching? The implied answer in the underlying Greek grammar is "they won't." So the preaching of the Gospel is necessary to salvation.

    2.) Countless. Too many to count.

    Blessings,

    The Archangel
     
  3. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    No.
    Countless millions.

    So what?
     
  4. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    No. Christianity is not accessible to everyone.

    Edit to finish answer:

    Christianity may not be available to everyone. However, I believe there is a path to salvation outside of the religion of Christianity but still through Christ. God found a way to save His elect before Jesus. Should we assume that after Jesus, those doors are now shut? Because it is written:

    All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
    Romans 2:12‭-‬15 NIV
     
    #4 delizzle, Feb 2, 2018
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  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    As a Calvinist , would hold with God will somehow, some way make sure that His elect will be given the Gospel of Jesus, so can be thru radio, TV, missionary, dreams etc!
     
  6. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Dreams? Uh oh, do not let your other Calvinist friends know this, as it does not fit in their box. :)
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Actually, many of us do see the lord doing that today among Muslims!
     
  8. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    That question was in response to this post from TCassidy........
    You "partucular redemptionists" say that God has to "enable" someone before they can believe the Gospel and you say that He DOES NOT enable those He chooses not to enable. And you say that they CANNOT believe unless this "enabling" takes place. right? Is that the concept in a nutshell or did I miss something? OK, so how is "atonement" "available" to those who cannot possibly believe without the "enabling" taking place?

    Now, to answer your "two part question".....
    1)No, I don't see how someone can "believe in Jesus" if they have "never heard of Jesus.
    2) The question "how many" is one no one can answer. However, these are some scriptures God has given us which shed some light on what you're asking......

    Romans 1
    18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

    And it correlates with Psalm 19

    1{To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.} The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

    2Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.

    3There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. That even means "Maya", "Nahua", "Inuit" and Native Australian"

    4Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,

    5Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.

    6His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. And what did their "uttered speech" reveal?



    7The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

    8The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.

    9The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.

    10More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.

    11Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.

    12Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.

    13Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

    14Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

    I didn't say it: God's WORD says it.
    I just believe that God is so righteous, loving and JUST that He WILL get the message to them somehow, maybe he sent preachers to them sometime in the past too! But "even His eternal power AND "Godhead" is revealed to everyone! How? Who knows. But God says it in His word and I believe it. BUT...when you say that "God chose to save only the "the elect"(which term is not about salvation anyway) and let everyone else go burn forever in Hell with NO CHANCE of being saved, that is "another Jesus".
     
  9. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    Unless there are no elect in areas not accessible to Christianity .
     
  10. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    The difference is that Muslims have heard of Jesus. They only believe Him to be a prophet. However, there has been cases where missionaries have visited isolated tribes on remote islands and have described them to worship a "nameless" God and described this God to be very similar to the God of Abraham.
     
  11. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    Perhaps it is the same way people believed in Jesus before Jesus? How did God save His elect before Jesus?
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    There are also modern cases where Muslim are claiming that Jesus spoke/appeared to them in their dreams or visions!
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    By regenerating them unto eternal life, they then received Him and believed Him unto salvation!
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God has nowhere He cannot access though!
     
  15. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Jesus has always existed. The worlds were made by Him. He was the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" the Bible says. He is the "I AM" who was "before Abraham",and walked with the three Hebrew children int he midst of the fiery furnace,. Men "called upon the name of the Lord" back in Genesis 4 and David spoke of Him in the Psalms. In the OT, men were looking "forward" to the "fullness of time" when the Lord would come. Sure, they didn't know all the details, but the promise and prophecy was made back when man first sinned, God cursed the Serpent, and said "thou shalt bruise "His heel".
     
  16. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    I agree. In fact, the level of reported visions are unprecedented. The only point I was trying to make is that without ever hearing the name "Jesus", how would you know who Jesus was even if He was revealed in a dream? Which is why I brought up the island tribes. They likely had the same visions and dreams. However, without knowing the name, they called Him "the nameless God".
     
  17. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    I would assume God can do the same thing today for some isolates islanders...right?
     
  18. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    Sorry, I was being fecicious. Hence the.
     
  19. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    I agree. I also believe that the same path that saved Able, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Elijah, Ect.... is still open today. We cannot simply assume that those doors are now shut because of the Crucifixion. If God's plan is to keep people out of Hell, that would be counterproductive.
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God's Plan has always been to reserve unto Himself, to save out of godless and sinful Humanity a remnant unto Himself! First among Israel, and now among the gentile nations...
     
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