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Is Christianity Accessible to All People?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Feb 2, 2018.

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  1. Yabruf

    Yabruf New Member

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    1. No- Romans 10:17 answers this: So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    2. No one- Romans 10:18 answers this: But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    First, I am responding only to the OP, I did not read the follow-on posts.

    1) Can someone believe in Jesus if he has never head of Jesus? Nope
    2) How many people have lived and died without ever hearing the gospel of Jesus? Unknown, but probably millions.

    The apparent implication, is that salvation is not "available" to all those unable to hear either because the gospel was never presented to them or they had been hardened such that they could not understand. And I would say that premise is true. They therefore face perfect justice in the afterlife.
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Or God found the way to get them the message of Jesus while alive, somehow/someway!
     
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  4. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    I think that you are reading Romans 10:18 a bible literalisticly.
     
  5. Yabruf

    Yabruf New Member

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    You are correct!
     
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    You just won the “Rippon Award”
     
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  7. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    I have enjoyed the interaction on this thread today--very much so!

    Perhaps this follow-up question should be a new thread. If so, please make it so. Here it is: Does God have to make it accessible to all or is He free to "veil" it from some?

    The reason I ask is that many of the non-reformed I've interacted with over the years reply simply: It isn't fair if God doesn't make it available to all.

    Blessings,

    The Archangel
     
  8. Yabruf

    Yabruf New Member

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    Romans 1:19-21 Tells use that God has made himself accessible to all. Verse 20 shows that there is no excuse and verse 21 demonstrates that God can and will harden their heart.

     
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  9. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    That wasn't a compliment.
     
  10. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Most non-Cals speak as if the entire population of the Earth for the past 2,000 years has lived in an environment very similar to Nashville, TN, with TV evangelists, and church on every corner, Bibles on every bookshelf and Christian neighbors on every side.
     
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  11. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    Many non-reformed apply the Old Testament with great misunderstanding (and the New, but I'm seeking to make a point about the Old) as if the promises therein were universal (ie. to the Philistines, the Amorites, etc.). It is easily forgotten that Israel had a special relationship with God, that they were the recipients of His special revelation. So, they already knew God because He revealed Himself to them.

    The Archangel
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Assertions without citations are like obfuscation without truth.
     
  13. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Oh, you mean like how Reformed and Calvinists apply the promises of Ezekiel 36, a passage about the renewal of the nation of Israel, as if they were universal to people nowadays and change the subject to regeneration of the sinners heart?

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
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  14. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    Darn autocorrect! We will battle again!
     
  15. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    Not at all...

    Because believers in Christ belong to Abraham, just as Israel did. Paul is quite clear in Galatians when he writes:

    And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. (Galatians 3:29 ESV)
    And, you've misunderstood my point. Israel is not ignorant of who God is and what He demands, since He has told them by revealing Himself to them. The disconnect comes not from the application of the Old Testament, including Ezekiel, to believers in Christ, but from the application of the Old Testament promises to people outside of the revelation of God. God works with Israel in one way and that way is extended to believers in Christ. Jesus Himself is quite clear on this, too, as He references the Old Testament and applies it to those who believe in Him. Of course, Paul, Peter, and the rest of the apostles do the same thing and even make that application applicable to both Jews and Gentiles.

    Blessings,

    The Archangel
     
  16. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    And you are now saying that nobody was saved prior to Jesus. See. I can put nonsense in your mouth too.

    Of course the Jews would not have known Him as "Jesus", but simply as the Messiah. The messiah is who the Jews had faith in.
     
    #56 delizzle, Feb 3, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
  17. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    I always thought it was like Memphis myself. Except Paul used the Good ol' King James Bible.
     
  18. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Yes. For example: "If my people. . .and I will heal their land".
     
  19. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    This is a quote from you:

    If that does not equal faith + works = salvation, please tell us how.
     
  20. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    Yes. This is especially true when you consider the blessings and curses of Deuteronomy 28. There is a pre-existing covenant relationship between Israel and God, who initiate the relationship by revealing Himself to them.

    The Archangel


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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