The word you are looking for is predispositions ;) ... but to say they can't help it is the most damaging thing you can ever tell a depressed person. It removes all hope. They are consigned to live that way and that is the problem with the modern approach to the problem. People are told their only hope is to take meds. Recently I read James Dobson talking about winter depression without ever talking about God and his conclusion was, just hang on and it'll get better. And this guy is respected. What a hopeless statement. Up here, it won't get better til about April or so ... fortunately there is hope before then in the Scripture.
As for chemical imbalance, Donna, you are right. But a chemical imbalance needs to be identified, not guessed at. In most cases, it is not identified. Mood altering drugs are prescribed on teh basis of a conversation, not on the basis of tests for chemical imbalance.
Is depression sin?
Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by John3v36, Jan 26, 2005.
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Pastor Larry, you say "Mood altering drugs are prescribed on the basis of a conversations, not on the basis of tests for chemical imbalance." You make it sound as if ALL of these are. You really need to get your facts straight or clarify your statements. I know mine weren't given just on the basis of a conversation, and MANY don't have these med's given to them on the basis of a conversation. I'm not saying there are those who don't, but, I am saying I think you're way off base.
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If you read what I said, you will see that I said "in most cases." That clearly does not mean "in all cases." I think it was pretty clear.
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Very true, you did say in most cases. My apologies. I had inadvertently overlooked that in my reading of your post. Again, I'm sorry.
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What about a War vet.
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Y'all say "Sometimes it can be casued by sin or a chemical imballance is not sin"
What is your a war vet? and have trouble dealing with the war thoughts?
Have you ever shot a man?
Is depression sin when you just can not forget? -
John3v36,
More VNam vets have taken their own lives than were killed in the war. But you probably know that. If you are having trouble dealing, stay on the meds. Anyone who tells you different is an IDIOT!
The deeper a hurt, the harder to forget. I am fully convinced there are some things that we will never forget this side of GLORY. Someone who has not been there CANNOT understand, and some WHO HAVE been there do not understand.
If you have been there, and are dealing, you have my deepest admiration and respect, BRO. You fought for my freedom. THANKS.
(But I will still argue theology with you, OK) -
OK. Idiot was too strong.
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</font>[/QUOTE]Okay so How do you
"Cast down every imagination and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God and bring every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ."
in your dreams when you wake-up in at mid-night? -
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I do not do meds -
John3,
If you were in VN no one will ever admit to all the things (bio-chems and other) to which you were probably exposed. I have some friends who have had serious issues. Meds have helped them.
Been butting in. I'm out. Will leave it to you guys. -
Medications simply are necessary for some people.
Take the Vietnam vet who has recurrent dreams of burning children or decapitated women (I've seen plenty of them at our local VA hospital). He is supposed to simply "bring every thought into captivity" and then everything will be peachy?
Anybody who thinks this has a fundamental midunderstanding of the issues.
Should the MS patient simply get up and walk? Should the brain damaged patient simply stop having seizures?
It is wrong to wallow in depression and depend on sedatives to ease the mind.
It is not wrong to use a limited dose of an antidepressant or mood stabilizer (neither are habit-forming) as PART of a Christ-centered approach to dealing with these devastating conditions.
The last thing one of these poor souls needs is to go to a pastor (or more properly someone impersonating a pastor) and be told that if he just would get right with God all the problems would go away! That's like telling the homeless man "be ye warm and filled" and yet giving him nothing.
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I recommend again Ed Welch's book Blame It On the Brain. It is a must read for people who want to get past these misunderstandings such as Charles demonstrated. -
Proverbs 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. 7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
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Talk about a fundamental misunderstanding ... Wow ... you really want to liken MS to non-medical depression? That is a horrible misunderstanding and a disservice to people on both sides.
Say what you like - but ONE of us is actually qualified and licensed to diagnose and (if necessary) treat these people.
To say that all mental illness is simply a manifestation of sin is to speak from complete ignorance. Have YOU ever worked in the state mental hospitals?
Now I'll agree that a good deal of it is due to sin; and not all depression needs medication.
But yes MS and major depression are similar. They are both neurologic disorders and sometimes require treatment. There are people who, although they do trust God to help them, still have uncontrollable sadness. To tell them it's all in their heads is not only plain WRONG, it is also dangerous. -
[qutoe]To say that all mental illness is simply a manifestation of sin is to speak from complete ignorance.[/qutoe][q/b]I agree. I don't konw why you bring that up. I already addressed that and someone tried yesterday to accuse me of that and when I pointed out what I actually said, they apologized for missing it. Why don't you go back and look at what I said. That would dispense with your accusations about me.
Have you read Welch's book on this topic? -
Larry,
I'm familiar with it but have not read it. I think he's a former neuropsych researcher.
I don't doubt that what you say is true in some cases. But I think your oversimplifying it. I end up seeing alot of psych patients (not really my choice). Some of it is biological. I recall a man who walked around the psych ward with his (imaginary) pet chicken, going up and down (invisible) elevators. When you mention Jesus to him he began to babble about his grandmother talking to Jesus alot on the radio.
This guy was floridly psychotic. A little Thorazine and he was fine - and able to carry on a conversation.
I recall another patient who had depression with psychotic features. He was active in his church but went off the deep end. After being started on appropriate medication he was able to be counselled and has been dealing with things in a much more positive fashion, even leading the choir in his church.
I think you and others have been influenced by the Oprah and Dr Phil type shows that worship the almightly human spirit and explain away any sin by saying it's a medical condition that is not anyone's fault. I agree that our society is radically wrong about these things.
But the fact is that mental illness does exist and some of it requires medication as part of the treatment. Not all of it and not everyone and not all the time.
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