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Featured Is faith a work?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by kyredneck, Feb 8, 2023.

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  1. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Enough already. Though I said to take up the matter in another thread and I'd respond, I see it’s already too late for that.

    That post is enough for me to ban you from further replies, except perhaps for some harsh rebukes, where necessary. Your non-sequiturs and missed points were bad enough. But you have now earned a most unenviable reputation.

    Your post does what my posts most emphatically did not do, namely insert words into scripture itself and attribute that to mine.

    Since you imply you saw it in reference to my post, that appears to make you a false witness of the most egregious sort. Looks like we’re done discussing.
     
  2. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Enough already. Though I said to take up the matter in another thread and I'd respond, I see it’s already too late for that.

    That post is enough for me to ban you from further replies, except perhaps for some harsh rebukes, where necessary. Your non-sequiturs and missed points were bad enough. But you have now earned a most unenviable reputation.

    Your post does what my posts most emphatically did not do, namely insert words into scripture itself and attribute that to mine.

    Since you imply you saw it in reference to my post, that appears to make you a false witness of the most egregious sort. Looks like we’re done discussing.
     
  3. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Maybe some day we’ll get together and talk about such sacred, personal things, brother. But in this corrosive, abusive environment, with ignorant, malign posts devolving into devilish, satanic ones echoing swinish growling and the trampling of hooves and paws, it would be much wiser to heed the Lord’s warning. Quite frankly, given all of that, one might wonder just what sort of repentance some of those posts are bragging about and blaming on God.
     
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  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Faith is what God requires of men. On the part of man it is not counted as the man's work. Salvation is wholly God's work. Therefore John 6:29 says, ' . . . Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. . . ." Because verse 27 said, " . . . Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. . . ."
    See John 17:3. 1 John 5:12.
     
  5. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Faith is given to those who are saved. It is required to fulfill the good works God has ordained that we do.

    You have yet to show how unregenerate man can have faith in a God he hates.
     
  6. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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      • The salvation that God freely and graciously provides comes by us willingly repenting of going our own way and by believing what he says to us.
      • Salvation is not given to us by us just believing anything, but by us believing what God says.
      • God says sinners must be born again
      • He says we were all born of the flesh and have a kinship with one another through the first man, Adam
      • In Adam we are all separated from the presence of God being within us
      • In this condition we all govern our own actions by our human spirit (soul) through our conscience.
      • Our conscience affirms right and good actions or condemns them, in Adam.
      • The moral law of God is written in our conscience and we are all aware of good and evil by virtue of being created by God.
      • Sin is the act of knowingly and deliberately transgressing the law of the mind and doing evil.
      • The soul, the eternal part of man, is tainted by his first sin, and he will die an eternal death, separated from God, because of it.
      • God says, "The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.
      • God is eternally omniscient, outside of time, and will always see a transgression of the sinner in the present tense because he sees all things at once.
      • This means a man is condemned to eternal separation by his first sin and there is nothing he can do to change it and make himself acceptable to God.
      • One sin equals death, eternal separation from God - Salvation equals eternal life, eternal oneness with God (atonement)
      • Being born again provides that oneness, the presence of God in our bodies.
      • If death passed on all men by a physical birth into the family of the first man because there was no inward power over sin, then God's remedy is to renew this family by providing a second birth into a new family through a second man by putting his own Spirit into the bodies of the family of the first man.
      • But first, because the actions of this first man, his whole family were alienated from God, he must send the second man to reconcile them to God by taking away the source of the alienation, which is sin.
      • So God the Father, the judge of all the earth, devised a way, the only way, to reconcile this whole family to himself at one time by taking sin away by enduring it's penalty on behalf of all members in Adam's family in the person of his son, who is both God and man at the same time..
      • It would need to be proven that he was identified on the one hand as a member of Adam's race while at the same time proving that he was also the head of a new family and the only begotten Son of God in the flesh and that all men can be born into this family by faith in him and his work.
      • This was achieved by his receiving his ID with humanity through a woman of Adams race, but without the headship of Adam, being conceived in her womb by God, his Father, with whom he was one.
      • Then he would have to live a life without sin, which he did, and was testified to by all credible witnesses who observed him during his life, and by God the Father himself.
      • Because he had no sin and the penalty of death was not on him, he willingly went to the cross and died so Adam's family could be reconciled to God by taking sin away and his own righteous nature could be imputed to any of them who would receive it.
      • If there was another way for God or man of reconciliation, a work or otherwise, then Jesus would not have had to die for sins.

    Things to consider:


    • If what God has said is true, the sin of the world is taken away when Jesus died on the cross, then God does not count men as sinners while they live on the earth now.
    • It cannot mean anything else
    • But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Ro 5:8 (past tense)
    • And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. 11 (present tense)
    • Jesus Christ was able to make atonement between God and man because he was both fully God and fully man at the same time.
    • This is called "reconciliation" between two parties, and Jesus Christ is both parties proven by his resurrection from the dead.
    • For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1Ti 2:5
    • All repentant sinners can now come to the Father, who alone can forgive personal sins, if they come in faith, claiming the sacrifice of Jesus Christ as their own.
    • Sinners can know they are sinners, because they do wrong, but they cannot know there is forgiveness in Jesus Christ if someone does not tell them.
    • Faith comes by hearing the word of God (the Father).How can they hear without a preacher? Even though atonement has been made, it will not help if it remains unknown by the sinner.
    • The sinner must hear of the grace of God and the gospel of Jesus Christ in order to have a heartfelt belief in it and have his sins pardoned.
    • The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. Joh 1:29
    • but now once in the end of the world (aion =age) hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Heb 9:26b
    • For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him (in his body, his family). 2Co 5:21
    The question is: Did Jesus put away the sin of the world at the sacrifice he made at the cross, according to the reckoning of God like he said? Most of the Baptist posters on this website says NO! But the right answer is YES!

    • Atonement is made for the whole world and sinners may come to God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ and be reconciled while they live, but if they don't, they will perish in the lake of fire eternally separated from the omnipresent God, the only place in God's creation that he has chosen not to be.,
    • And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: Heb 9:27
    • But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Re 21:8
    • One can see that not only is faith in God and his Christ not a work, but failure to believe is a sin that condemns one to the lake of fire.
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    A side issue. Soul and man's spirit being together or being the same entity?
     
  8. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    What? You're claim is that the soul is physical? The soul and spirit of man is the same, interchangeable. Jesus knows of only two parts of man in Adam's family.

    Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    So, the preacher;

    Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (soul) shall return unto God who gave it.
     
    #128 JD731, Feb 13, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2023
  9. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Maybe, some 'day' in eternity. :)

    Over the years I've refrained from casting many pearls from meditating on God's word out there to be trampled on. Best to do it by PM.

    Not all Calvinists are like that, only two or three on this board. Reminds me of Romans 2:24.
     
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  10. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    So, who's the other Calvinist beside yourself who you accuse of Romans 2:24?
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No. There are two views of the soul and spirit. One view the soul or spirit are one thing. The other view they are two distinct nonphyisical parts of man. As in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 and Hebrews 4:12.
     
  12. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    This should not even be a subject of discussion because of the trinitarian image of God, into which Adam was created. If being born again is receiving the Spirit of God into the mortal body, making the regenerated man a trinity and at the same time giving him the eternal life of God, whom the Spirit is,:

    Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his (Christ's) Spirit that dwelleth in you.(John 1:4 in him was LIFE (The Spirit of God), and the LIFE was the light of men.)

    2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image (of the Lord) from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

    2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

    A person who believes in a 4 part man does not demonstrate that he has spiritual discernment on the matter, in spite of the fact that he can claim he has multiple bible translations and advanced knowledge.

    There is much to know, but one must believe the words first before God will reveal anything to you. My motto is "BELIEVE THE WORDS"
     
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Who teaches that? No such treaching. Never heard such a thing.
     
  14. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Six hour warning
    This thread will be closed no sooner than 10 pm EST / 7 pm PST
     
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  15. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, but you should. If a man has a soul, body and metaphysical spirit, then is regenerated by the indwelling Spirit of God and Christ, then count them up. He is a four part man. If the soul of a man is in his body, he is alive. If not, he is dead. I do not know where this metaphysical spirit comes from or where it goes. does anybody know?

    I do not hang around men who teach such a doctrine of man as this. It is the reason I cannot answer your question of "who teaches that." I just know that 1+1+1+1 = 4.

    The tabernacle in the wilderness is a picture of a man. The outer court, the inner court, and the holy place. The outer court is the body. The inner court is the soul. The holy place is where the Spirit of God resides. A trinity.

    2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
    2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven (the new glorified body)
    3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
    4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
    5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
    6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
    7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight)
    8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
    9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

    God has given us all kinds of pictures of his truths. We need not be ignorant
     
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No. None of any Bibilical Scripture teaches any such thing.

     
  17. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    I agree that scripture does not teach such a thing and I did not bring it up. But 1 Thess 5 is written to, and the context is born again people who have the Spirit of God, and the truth of Heb 4 has been evidenced by our Lord Jesus himself, when all three of his parts were divided on the cross. His Spirit went back to God who gave it, his body went to the tomb, and his soul went to paradise in the center of the earth until he was resurrected.

    1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Their ". . . whole spirit and soul and body . . . ."
    Now God's Spirit is distinct from our spirit per Romans 8:16, ". . . The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God. . . ."
     
  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Salty, it's gotta be the 6 hour mark! :Whistling
     
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  20. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    This thread is closed
    Feel free to start a new thread
     
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