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Featured Is faith a work?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by kyredneck, Feb 8, 2023.

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  1. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    27 Work not for the food which perisheth, but for the food which abideth unto eternal life....
    28....What must we do, that we may work the works of God?
    29 ...This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. Jn 6

    A couple of things.

    Note that this is not in the C vs A forum, so please refrain from derailing the thread into that wilderness.

    Brevity please, no c&p dumps from commentaries. As concisely as you can, let's hear your thoughts. Scripture is encouraged.

    I'll begin:

    Yes, I think faith is a work.
     
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  2. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    IMHO
    The learned obedience of the Son of God, born of woman, unto death, even the death of the cross Heb 5:7,8 Phil 2:8 was/is the faith of God the Father and it is the work of God to draw us unto, the faith. John 6:29 & 44

    who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, though being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience,
    and in fashion having been found as a man (ie born of woman), he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross,
    Jesus answered and said to them, 'This is the work of God, that ye may believe in him whom He did send.'
    no one is able to come unto me, if the Father who sent me may not draw him, and I will raise him up in the last day;

    Jesus said, "Have faith of God,"

    being declared righteous freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God did set forth a mercy seat, through the faith in his blood, for the shewing forth of His righteousness, because of the passing over of the bygone sins in the forbearance of God -- Rom 3:22,23

    set forth - g4388 = πρό (G4253) and τίθημι (G5087) before placed/appointed
    If one has faith or through the faith of God?
     
  3. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it involves the mind. The act of thinking is something that we perform.

    The Bible passage you shared is spot on.
     
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  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    I agree that God does that, but Christ is talking about something that man does - believe.

    Christ told them to "work....for the food which abideth unto eternal life".

    They asked, "what must we do, that we may work the works of God?"

    Christ answered, "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

    Thus, I think our faith is a work. (for more reasons than just this)
     
    #4 kyredneck, Feb 8, 2023
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  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Which one?

    ...didn't know who you were replying to
     
    #5 kyredneck, Feb 8, 2023
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  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Sorry. I was referencing your OP.
     
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  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    From the other thread.

    @RighteousnessTemperance&:

    " It isn’t just the notion that faith is actually a work, but the accusation that it is for those who surrender to Christ of their own free will, and further that it must therefore be some sort of boast. For someone who has experienced it, the notion is simply ludicrous. The only possible boast is in the Lord who “saved a wretch like me.”

    Just to put a cap on it, the doctrine of free will faith includes the realization that this free will to choose Jesus or not is given by God just like everything else one has. There is no boasting, except in the Lord. There is no difference between the Calvinist and the non-Calvinist on this point. And, really, that is the point."

    There'll be no accusations on this thread if I can prevent it. I'd love for us to simply reason together from the scriptures.

    What are your reasons for thinking it 'ludicrous' to consider our faith as a work?
     
  8. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    @kyredneck Another reason why faith is considered a work: how many people, if you asked them how they know they are saved, would point back in time and say, "I made a confession of faith" or something similar. They are looking to a condition that they think they have fulfilled themselves.

    If one is truly saved, he does not look back to something that he thought or said or did. If one is truly saved, he looks back at all that God(Father, Son, Holy Spirit) did from even before the world began up to procure his salvation and regenerated life in Christ. He certainly does not look back and say I did this or that or the other thing in order to be regenerated(born again).
     
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  9. Jec81

    Jec81 Member

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    Romans 12:3 or I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
     
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  10. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Romans 4:1-8 seems to suggest that faith is not a work.
    'But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.'
     
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  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Hey Jec, want to share your point? Are you 'for or against' faith as a work?

    Incidentally:
    1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:
    2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 2 Thess 3
     
  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Agree. Carrying over from the previous chapter, faith is not the works of the law or any work with the intent to earn merit.
     
  13. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    Scripture contrasts faith with works.
    What do you think faith is? If faith is the resting in and trusting in what Christ has done for you then by that definition it cannot be a work.
     
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  14. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Justification comes from the object of faith, or His faithfulness.

    Galatians 2:16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

    Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

    (emphasis mine)
     
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  15. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Yes it does!

    It's a deep conviction of things that can't be seen with the eye or touched with the hand. It's relying on Christ:

    5 Trust in Jehovah with all thy heart, And lean not upon thine own understanding:
    6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, And he will direct thy paths. Prov 3

    If Christ said it is a work and if in the end God 'bundles it together' with works, then it is a work.
     
    #15 kyredneck, Feb 8, 2023
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  16. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    If you mean John 6:29 look at the whole section. The people are following Jesus around and he confronts them with the fact that they really noticed that Jesus could make food. Jesus says, this isn't about physical food. They counter with what amounts to "we want to be doing this too" (making food). Jesus, still trying to get them on a spiritual plane tells them that the "work" of God that is important is that they believe. He is trying to move them toward a spiritual level but doesn't have much success.
    I don't think the intention is to make a doctrinal teaching that faith is a work.
     
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  17. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    That's NOT the intent with this thread, but the fact is Christ has presented a connection between the two.

    Christ told them to "work....for the food which abideth unto eternal life".

    They asked, "what must we do, that we may work the works of God?"

    Christ answered, "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

    You ever wonder why there's no mention of faith in any of the final judgement passages? They're all about works. I posit that faith is 'bundled together' with works and that is what Christ is doing.

    Do you doubt that faith in Christ is a good work?
     
  18. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not talking about the thread, just the passage. You are misusing the passage.
    I have often wondered about that in the final judgement passages. I have a working understanding of why that is but I would have to cite references which you don't like so you will have to depend on your own wisdom.
    I not only doubt it, I know for sure. It is not a good work. Having faith as a work is an unorthodox position.
     
  19. Guido

    Guido Active Member

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    While the Bible does call faith a work, it still distinguishes faith from the works of the law, and declares that we are saved by faith, and not by the the works of the law. See Galations 2.
     
  20. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    So you say. What do you think Christ meant by "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

    Try and articulate it without the references. And thanks.

    I strongly disagree with you. It pleases God well that we trust Him. Although there's absolutely no mention of our faith in the judgement passages, I'm convinced that faith is bundled in with all the other good works, kind of like here:

    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Gal 5

    ...or here:

    23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Mt 23

    In this sense, faith is a good work.
     
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