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Featured Is God Racist

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by AustinC, Sep 21, 2020.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The god of Islam, Allah, favors whites over blacks, as in their Heaven all are made white and all lost are made black, but Yahweh sees just human period!
     
  2. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    One must observe the human family in the light of the creation of God. By that I mean that God is a trinity. He is three in one and one in three, but he is one. All of his creation bears the trinitarian signature and humanity is no exception. We are all one race but divided into 3 families within that race. all the earth came through Adam and Noah and those men makes us the common race. However, from there we are descended from Japheth, or Shem, or Ham. At first, on this side of the flood, all the families lived together and that did not work at all. A despot from the family of Ham, a man by the name of Nimrod, became the universal ruler over the people and led them in a revolt against God. He was a Cushite ( the name Cush means black) and the grandson of Ham. It was then that God confused their languages so they would have to separate themselves like he had commanded Noah when he got off the ark. God has always been a divider of men. Following is commentary of his division and Calvinists are not going to like this;

    Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
    25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
    26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

    Can you tell us why?

    27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
    28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
    29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
    30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

    The table of nations are given in Ge 10. He sent the Shemites east for the most part and the Hamites south and the Japhethites west. These sons of these men became nations and separated themselves from one another on their continents. This is the thinking of God. It is his plan. The unity of mankind is a promotion of evil works because men are evil and evil begets evil. God in his bible always moves east to west. God wants separation. One can check that themselves. When the door of faith was opened to gentiles in a place where three continents met, Paul went west on all of his missionary journeys and technically speaking and according to Gen 10, to the gentiles, who were in the west. Thankfully, the west brought t the gospel of Christ back to the east and to Africa, what the scriptures calls the land of Ham. Our church supports several missionaries to those African lands at this very hour. God wants to save them but he has not turned over the stewardship of the gospel to them or the Asians. Where would we be 2000 years later if he had? One family is not better than another but God employs them differently.

    God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son so we can be saved is true. He did not say he loved us four and no more. God is all wise. He knows what will work best. Separation works best according to Acts 17.
     
  3. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    There is no reason to believe Adam and Eve were black other than you want to. Blacks have a history of declaring historical figures as black when they weren't. I guess they feel like they need it.

    It is God that gave no blessing to Ham and cursed his descendants. It is not a question of supremacy or inferiority.

    Again, you're not paying attention. The blessing and cursing upon Shem, Ham, and Japheth doesn't have anything to do with the Church. It has to do with all of mankind. In the Church there is no Jew or Gentile. In the world there is. And that world comes from the three sons of Noah, and the blessings and curses that go with them.

    So, as we see God divides. He divides man by race resulting from the blessings and curse given by Noah.(Gen. 9:25-27). He divides the nations through the languages. (Gen. 10:5) He further divided them by dividing the earth. This is probably the division of the great seas. (Gen. 10:25) And later, Jesus would divide. (Luke 12:51)

    It is God who brings division among mankind. Be it language, race, spiritual, or geographical. Why? Because division is a protection, a hindrance to the wickedness of man multiplying as it did prior to the flood. And what does man do? Just the opposite of God. Man want to unite. Break down those barriers of hate that separate us. Diversity is our strength, man says. God says it isn't. But, what does He know?

    Quantrill
     
  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Sigh, genetic function in humanity was created by God, in Adam. In fact, Eve's genetic code came from Adam.
    The fact is that white skin is a recessive gene. As is blue eyes and blond hair. Most of the world is not white skinned, not blue eyed and not blond haired. White is recessive.
    But, all skin color is irrelevant before God. God has chosen his children from every skin tone, every culture, every language he created.
    Conclusion: God is not racist. Not one bit.
     
  5. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    The descendants of Ham went to Africa. Hams descendants involve more than just the black people in Africa. But the blacks in Africa are from Ham.

    As I have said, Ham received no blessing. This is a point you continue to ignore. Even if there was no curse, there was no blessing. But there was a curse. And that curse went to a descendent of Ham. And because it went to the youngest son, it covered all of Ham's brothers before him. And that curse involved servitude, slavery. This doesn't mean every descendent of Ham is in shackles and chains. It means the race of Ham on the world stage would be a race of servitude.

    Arthur Custance in his 'Doorway Papers' makes a very good point here. Noah could not curse Ham without cursing himself. The greatness of a son was attributed to the father. See (1 Sam. 17:55) Concerning David after he slew Goliath, Saul asked whose son is he. The honor would go to his father.

    Likewise, you have God doing the same with Solomon. See (1 Kings 11:9-12). Solomon sinned. But God would not bring the judgement upon Solomon. Why? For David's sake. But David was long gone. But, if God had judged Solomon it would have brought dishonor to David's name. And God wasn't going to do it. The judgement still fell, but it fell on Solomon's son.

    So it is with the 'no blessing' given to Ham but his descendants are under the curse.

    This is not to be confused, as you are doing with fall of Adam and Eve and the curse upon the earth. The serpent was cursed and so was the earth, but Adam and Eve were not. (Gen. 3:14,17)

    Again, and again, this is not talking about the Church, though the Church will be impacted by it. It is talking about all mankind. Just because all of mankind have the opportunity to come to Christ, does not change these prophecies of Noah to all of mankind.

    Quantrill
     
  6. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Deut 32:8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.

    Have the bounds fluctuated with the numbers?

    If so, racial?
     
  7. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Very good.

    Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
     
  8. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Ham, (in Hebrew: חָם‎ Hebrew pronunciation: [ˈħam]) according to the Table of Nations in the Book of Genesis, was the second son of Noah and the father of Cush, Mizraim, Phut and Canaan.

    All of his descendants or just Canaan?
     
  9. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    Yet He chose the Jews above all peoples. (Deut. 7:6)

    Quantrill
     
  10. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    I believe all of Ham's descendants are affected. See my post #(65). Remember, in this prophecy of Noah, Ham received no blessing. In this threefold division of mankind, Shem and Japheth received blessing. Ham did not.

    Quantrill
     
  11. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE="percho, post: 2636203, member: 9897"]Ham, (in Hebrew: חָם‎ Hebrew pronunciation: [ˈħam]) according to the Table of Nations in the Book of Genesis, was the second son of Noah and the father of Cush, Mizraim, Phut and Canaan.

    All of his descendants or just Canaan?[/QUOTE]


    The order of birth of the three sons of Noah is as follows.

    First, they were triplets.

    Gen 5:32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

    The order of birth;

    1) Japheth
    2) Shem
    3) Ham

    The scriptures;

    Gen 10:21 Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born.

    Gen 9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
    23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
    24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

    Shem is the second born son of God and it is through his line that God sends his Son, Jesus Christ, to save our souls. God uses the second son to illustrate the second birth, i.e. Cain and Abel, Ismael and Isaac, Esau and Jacob, etc. The first son is always a type of the natural man. I do not know what, if anything, a third son represents in typology. I do not have any light on that.

    The "second man" proof:

    1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
    46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
    47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
    48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
    49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
    50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
     
    #71 JD731, Sep 26, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
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  12. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Was Abram a Jew?
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, but he also choose them to bring thru them the Messiah, who is the blessing for all nations and peoples!
     
  14. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Right. Through Abraham will all nations be blessed. All of history revolves around the promised one as Redeemer and King. God chose Abraham as the seed through which he would become man and Redeem the children of the promise.
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    And God will bring into the Kingdom of the Messiah peoples out from every language and color of skin, how is that being racist?
     
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  16. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    What does (Deut. 7:6) say?

    Quantrill
     
  17. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    So? God still chose the Jews above all other races of people. Why? Because they would be of Shem, who received the blessings from Noah.

    See how consistent God is.

    Quantrill
     
    #77 Quantrill, Sep 26, 2020
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  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God choose them due to his own pleasure, as NOTHING in them any better then anyone else!
     
  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Deuteronomy 7:6 “For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

    Was Abram a Jew? This verse doesn't say he was.

    When did the term Jew begin being used? Hint: It was after the Kingdoms split.

    Now, what does Romans 9:6-8 say?

    "But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring."

    Guess what. The children of the promise come from every nation, tribe and tongue. So much for that racist curse you think God has established.
     
  20. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    Where did I ever say any was chosen because they were better than anyone else?

    God's choosing was based upon the race of Shem as that is where the blessing was to be found.

    Quantrill
     
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