Is GW Bush an authentic Christian!?

Yes your opinions are yours, but not based on the actions of President Bush, but upon others opinions of President Bush. If you can't see that you are blind.

 

Hillclimber:

You said:

Please provide evidence that my opinions of Bush are based on others' opinions of Bush. Indicate direct examples where I have quoted others, or where I have cut and pasted the opinions of others.

I look forward to your response.

PA

 

As a mere matter of argumentation, how would the failure to be able to post such information indicate that your opinions are not based on teh opinions of others?? Can't you see the problem with that? The fact that you may not have directly cited someone else doesn't mean that their opinion didn't influence you.

Here's the question: Do you konw Bush personally by spending time with him? If the answer to that is no, then your opinion (whatever it might be) is based on others opinions as they are reported in various sources. Short of your personal firsthand knowledge of Bush by spending time with him (something I am confident you have not done) then it is clear that your opinions of Bush (like virtually everyone else's) is based on others' opinions of him.

 

As a mere matter of argumentation, how would the failure to be able to post such information indicate that your opinions are not based on teh opinions of others?? Can't you see the problem with that? The fact that you may not have directly cited someone else doesn't mean that their opinion didn't influence you.

Here's the question: Do you konw Bush personally by spending time with him? If the answer to that is no, then your opinion (whatever it might be) is based on others opinions as they are reported in various sources. Short of your personal firsthand knowledge of Bush by spending time with him (something I am confident you have not done) then it is clear that your opinions of Bush (like virtually everyone else's) is based on others' opinions of him. </font>[/QUOTE]So this has become a usless topic considering that no one actually knows the President. Those who say that Bush is a Christian are just as capable of being wrong about their assumptions as those who say that he is not.

 

Pastor Larry and Hillclimber:

How did you form your opinion of Bush? Do you know Bush personally and have you spent time with him? Have you formed your opinions based on his decisions? Or did you really form your opinion based on what others say, as you accuse me of doing?

My point is that intelligent people form their opinions about Bush (or anything else) by what they observe; then they draw their own conclusions. Is that concept too difficult for you to understand?

PA

 

Rocko9:

This is exactly my point. Those who believe Bush is a Christian have also based their opinions on their own observations.

PA

 

Can I ask a question about this topic?

What is the difference between an "Authentic Christian" and a "Christian"?


Jamie

 

If Shakespeare were alive and writing today, he could get a world of material from the BB along the lines of "Much ado about nothing"!

Not particularly the "TOPIC", but the "conversations"

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but my opinion is certainly formed from the opinions of others. I am not the one who denied. You were.

No, not at all. But when you said or implied that your opinions were not based on other's opinions, I was merely pointing out the fallacy involved. You know nothing about Bush except for others' opinions.

It hasn't "become" a useless topic. It started off useless. Both sides are equally capable of being wrong, although only one side is. I do not know which side is wrong, and neither does anyone else.

My meager opinion is based on his testimony that I have seen. But I really don't know.

 

Maybe they come with special authenticity documents or something?

I agree. This is a dumb post looking more to show the world how smart some of us think we are instead of setting aside the ego and engaging in interesting convesation that might spur growth.

Daisy, btw, that was a great chuckle! Thanks!

 

Everyone started off believing in the need to go get Iraq straightened out. Soon the liberals found out they could play a game of "no" with regards to any presidential efforts and come out smelling like a rose over time. They found out that lies stated often enough, produced converts to their way of thinking, and so continued to come up with every kind of lie, inuendo, and mistatement imaginable with no discernable consequences, and that is where the information you Bush haters feed on comes from. You can't name a single charge leveled by the leftists on GWB that has produced anything except political capital for the socialist/communists from the east.
Poor student: Highest educated President in history.
Dropped out of Nat. Guard: no evidence
Racism: Largest percentage of blacks and other minorities in administration in Presidential history.
Trying to destroy Social Security: Sent up a rough plan to Congress that would have had a profoundly positive effect on SS, but was killed by the dems.

It goes on and on.

 

Christ said,
Matthew 7:20 - Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Thats all you need to do to see whether a person is a Christian or not.

The only problem in this debate is that you have plenty of people that wont bother looking at the fruits and when they see them they refuse to believe them.

Knowing this though can you honestly claim that somebody that was born again and has the Holy Spirit of God living within him could honestly:

1. Say that Muslims and Christians worship the same God.

2. Bush is threatening to veto anti-torture legislation. Doh you cant honestly say that Christ would be for torture and that God's children should be torturing confessions out of people.

3. Bush's support and pressuring Israel for the Roadmap to peace plan.

4. Sit their laughing while his wife shamed him in front of millions of Americans by talking about stuffing dollars down strippers underwear and him trying to milk a horse through his penis.

5. Flaunt all international law and Biblical values by invading Iraq under false pretences.

No my friends based upon his fruit I would have to say that NO Bush's claim to being a Christian means no more to me than Hitler's claim to being a Christian.

 

jereome,

1. He's the president, not a preacher. He is to be the president of all people. Would you have the same problem is he stated that Jews and Christians worship the same God? After all, the Jews don't worship the God of the Bible since they don't worship Jesus Christ Who is God.

2. I disagree vehemently with the president on this but there is room for honest disagreement on this issue within reason.

3. I agree totally with the president on this issue. I don't see what this has to be with being a Christian as it is a policy issue, not a soteriological issue.

4. I thought the First Lady's remarks were funny as well and I am a Christian.

5. You are bearing false witness. See the bottom of page 3 of:

www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/fbi/indict1.pdf

Also, you have offered no proof to back up your claim.

Also, you need to learn that in public debate to bring up the "fascist" or "Nazi" or "Hitler" perjorative is to automatically lose the debate.

 

Spot on. This topic is about as useful as if we debated about whether posters here on the Baptist Board are authentic Christians - which is, of course, against the Baptist Board rules.

 

Actually the bush people fired the salvos that
promoted him as "Gods Man!" I got the phone call
and also that day the lady said "Bush is called of God and is Gods man" I hung up.. of course this was during the last election cycle ...where rove was taking the naive bunch again for a ride by inflaming the base ..with the so called "bush will do something with the marriage amendment"
what a bunch of fakes and a whole lot of baloney.

Now we don't even know if bush was even baptized after he was REALLY SAVED also their is gaps in his recommital...was it Arthur Blessit or was it
Billy Graham.

It speaks volumes that bush could not walk an aile like the rest of us but had to ask for a private meeting to pray the sinners prayer then
does not walk an aile to proclaim it and then
get baptized...evangelicals know what I am speaking about...its the way it is done..without
shame and without hiding from it.

 

One does not have to "walk an aisle" to be a Christian. "Walking an aisle" has nothing to od with being saved. One can be saved sitting a pew or anywhere else for that matter. To think otherwise is just plain unBiblical.

Some Bush bashers/haters come up with some of the most inane comments on the planet.

By the way, ASLANSPAL, you still haven't either come up with proof for a couple of charges toward George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush on another thread in this forum or repented of your charges if you can't prove them.

 

Then your own commentary about another human being speaks volumes of your unChristian like behavior. There are thousands of things you could cite about the President, and you bring up #4?

These comments of yours very well may be the only 'fruits' we see. Youll be judged accordingly, as youve so diligently have done for the President.

One thing you should know, if you can wrap your smallish mind around it, is that the Presidency never claimed to be Christian. The man who serves as President did. And you dont know him personally any more than I do. So, please spare me.

If you have a problem with this, then stop screaching about war. Because this very reason you cited is why the insurgents are so dedicated to the cause of fighting Americans, anywhere anytime - not just in Iraq or Afghanistan. In a town near YOU.

Can you honestly believe that we actually torture people? I work with detainees swept from the battlefields who are insideous little creatures, however much they deserve an elbow to the back of the head - nobody in my entire chain of command has ever tortured any one of them. Unless you want to count when the AC broke...that is a whole other story.

My main issue with the legislation is this: We dont by daily habit torture people to death. If this were the case, then the guy who broke the lightbulb and held to my partner's neck would have been worm food long ago, after a couple pillow parties from the rest of us. If it isnt our normal policy, then why do we need legislation. You want a law that nobody is going to enforce should it be broken, that says we cant do what we dont do anyway? I want a tax refund paid directly to me by my congressmen then, because that is a waste of money.

I also think it is smart to let the threat of it just hang out there...the threat of use of force by US soliders...yeah maybe you wont be so peppy getting on airplanes with box cutters next time. But that is just me.

When did a peace plan for Israel become a bad thing? It is high time.

Eech. This is all you got? Please.

International law? Weve never followed international law in the first place. It often directly violates our own constitutional laws which if your so willing to set some of that aside while I trim a little fat off it, stand by to be roused from bed while I contact the web admin here to have you removed from this site due to your freedom of being speech cancelled immediately. If you can cite some far flung specific international law (and San Francisco City Council mandates dont count), that says DO NOT INVADE IRAQ, cite it, and Ill send you a box of homemade cookies.

 

Proof

Bush Unworthy of the Christian Vote
Reed R. Heustis, Jr.
October 29, AD 2004
http://www.reedheustis.com

I couldn't believe my own ears when I heard it myself. Goosebumps riddled my body, and my blood curdled. Earlier this week on ABC News, our "Christian" President George W. Bush proclaimed in front of a national audience that Christians and Muslims worship "the same god". (To see and view the interview online, please visit: http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/elections/article.adp?id=20041026095909990008)

Bush also said that Muslims and non-Christians both go to heaven because "we have different routes of getting there."

These statements are utter rejections of the Truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Said Christ, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6) No genuine Christian would ever proclaim that Muslims and Christians worship the same deity.

The Book of John says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." (John 1:1-3)

This is a clear reference to the Creator God. Later in the same chapter it is revealed, "the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us," which is a reference to the Creator God taking on human shape in the form of Jesus Christ.

This begs the question, If Muslims worship the same "Creator God", then how can Muslims logically reject Christ's deity?

It just cannot be said by any stretch of the imagination, unless you're a President attempting to bamboozle Christian voters yet again, that Muslims and Christians worship the same god.

Mere disagreements on peripheral issues are acceptable. Some Christians believe in infant baptism, while others do not. Many differ in their views of "end times" theology. Some embrace "charismatic" means of worship, while others abide by regulative principles. These issues and others are non-essential in that honest disagreements may occur even amongst saved Bible-believing Christians.

However, essential Christian doctrine can never be compromised!

The deity of Jesus Christ is essential, and President Bush not only compromised on this doctrine, but he embraced the demonic view of Universalism, the false belief that all roads lead to God.

 

I remember back in the 2000 primaries when George W. Bush, in a debate, was asked who had influenced him the most and he answered "Jesus Christ" how the media about had a cow over him saying that.

It seems if he is speaks personally as a Christian that the irreligious Left jumps all over him, and if he speaks moderately as the president of all the people of various faiths in the United States that the Pharasaical Right jumps all over him.