Now I would not go that far & draw that conclusion. They are extremely structured to the point of legalism & overtly centrist in their beliefs & it probably would not matter that I am a DoG believer, which I wasn't at the time. Now if you are in their covenant family, then you would get a pass....IE, if my child died in childbirth without infant baptism, the child would be covered since the parents were covenant believers....kinda like having spiritual insurance policy rather than take responsibility for your own salvation. These are all strange concepts for me as a Baptist to grasp today. However most people are better than their church theology, doctrines & dogmas. Most realize there is something in it....like say, "MERCY"
Is it even Biblical to Pray for a Person’s Salvation?
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by IceAndFire1328, Mar 23, 2013.
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
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And hey, i like my big Macks! -
BUT... since you brough this up, perhaps you could answer this...
If you had a stubborn teenager who was rebelling agianst God, how would a free-willer/non-cal/arminian pray for him? Would not it have be praying for God to "try" to save him, to convict him by his spirit, send people to him, but don't actually change his mind, don't overcome his sinful will...that would be overstepping the way God works, no?
I see both Cals & non-cals having a problem with exactly why & how we are to pray for the salvation of another...for Cal, if it's determined, why pray...for a non, if God can't/won't really overcome their will, then what exactly are you praying for? -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Some are addressed in this thread:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=76948&highlight="eternal+salvation"
Perhaps the most clear is in romans 3:21-26. Despite the arguments that v 22 could/should be translated as "Faith OF Christ" rather that "faith IN Christ."...those argument's don't change the fact that v.25 says the propitiation is "to be received by faith." ie, the MEANS by which we receive the justification, the free gift, the propitiation purchased by Christ's blood, is the faith of the recipient. -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
If the HS is guiding you to a missionary location, thats fine....they then take up collections in support. -
pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
and you disagree that God will make sure to get His saved ? did you even make sure you were both on the same wavelength as to what he meant with the word "saved" and what you meant by it ? -
pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
we PB's believe that when rightly divided, the word of God showsGod deals with His people in two dimensions, or ways, or whatever word you all may want to use.
The eternal.
The temporal.
For the eternal redemption of His people, whoever they are, wherever they are geographically, or whenever they were on this physical world chronologically, He required nothing. No faith, no obedience, no faithfulness, no prayers of "acceptance". nothing.
Everything hinged on Him, everything depended on the obedience, faith, faithfulness of Christ, His willingness, His determination.
That is absolute, unmerited, unqualified, crystal pure grace which most define as unmerited favor.
Suffice for their justification, adoption, redemption and cleansing is the blood of the Lamb drawn from eternity past from the Lamb of eternity.
In the mind of God (the Book of Life, if you will) everyone whose name is etched on that mind was redeemed from eternity past, and finally redeemed in time at the physical flow of that blood.
IT DOES NOT NEED A SELF-SACRIFICING PREACHER TO MAKE EFFECTIVE THAT REDEMPTION/SALVATION.
Therefore, we PB's do not believe in SALVIFIC MISSIONARY WORK.
However, God did want the good news given to His people, everywhere.
That the once offended God and the once offending creature has now been finally brought together in Christ and through Christ and that His people are to turn from their idols to the living God, worshipping Him in their midst before a crooked and perverse generation, and living the "Kingdom way" here on earth.
So God calls His people out into assemblies where His doctrine is TAUGHT, and righteous living is required, where righteousness is rewarded, and unrighteousness is chastised, lies exposed, and truth upheld.
This is gospel salvation, not regeneration.
This requires faith and obedience and faithfulness, and such other works of righteousness outlined in many of the apostles' letters, the lack of which does NOT IN ANY WAY negate the eternal destiny of the elect.
Arminians, etc., call this: discipling.
AFTER they have gotten the sinner saved. -
pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
given my last post, and in answer to the OP, it is NOT biblical to pray for a person's salvation IF the salvation is the one which Christ ALREADY did. It IS biblical for one to pray that another person showing signs of a regenerate spirit be finally converted and it IS biblical to pray that a wayward child of God be brought back into the fellowship of the saints by the God who redeemed him.
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Pinoy, I congratulate you on how well you articulated your position. Although, as an evangelical Calvinist, I disagree with some of your arguments, I recognize a well-thought-out defense of your view.
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pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
As my brother EWF said, if a Primitive Baptist, in his heart of hearts know, that God is calling him to go to a certain area, whether local or abroad, to preach the gospel, then go he must, not waiting for anything else. not support, not encouragement, not money, not any kind of pledge.
His total dependence should be on God.
He is to "sell everything he owns" and go, forthwith, no delays.
However, he is to preach the gospel of a FINISHED redemption, not just a possible one, of a successful, sovereign Savior.
He is to stay ROOTED where he felt God led him to be.
He is not to lay hands suddenly on any man, neither consider himself a master teacher to whom everybody must congregate as James cautioned. He is to teach faithfully whatever he holds as doctrine where he came from, not laying down which doctrines are negotiable, or non-negotiable.
He is to instruct other men, THEN WAIT ON GOD TO CALL OUT TO OTHER FIELDS FROM THE FLOCK GOD ENTRUSTED TO HIM.
Unfortunately, we are all of us fallen human beings, with a Midas touch that turns everything we touch accursed because of our fleshly tendencies, if you understand what I'm saying.
Many western missionaries, even PB's, have a tendency to become papal and there is a tendency for preachers in very poor countries, like mine, especially those in far-flung, financially depressed areas to view them as benefactors, something which appeals to the flesh. -
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pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
That is not my job. -
12 strings...
you asked of me...
Lord God, in Jesus name, I ask..I beg, that you bring salvation to my son. I have done all i can to teach him regarding The gosple and the blessings that it brings. And I will continue doing that. ,but I ask..with the help of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.. for you to enlighten him from on high, in your timing
I ask in Jesus name.
Amen -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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