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Featured Is it heretical to say that you must repent to be saved?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Cavell, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Active Member

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    Yes, I passively stand back and take note of how it's beginning to look that way to me, as well. :Laugh
    I say, let's stop while we are behind.;)

    It's time to hit the rack anyway.:Sleep
     
  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    Good reply, Hank. Regeneration is a gift from God that enables us to believe, repent, and obey. :)
     
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  3. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Goodnight, sleep tight... etc :Biggrin
     
  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    You tricked me! :Roflmao
     
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  5. Gup20

    Gup20 Active Member

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    Ephesians 1:13-14 (NASB) 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

    Indwelling of the Holy Spirit comes AFTER believing, not the other way around. The first person saved by grace through faith - Abraham - demonstrated this when he was made righteous for his faith prior to the Law being given & prior to being righteousness being “sealed” in him. Abraham received the sign of circumcision, but the Holy Spirit’s indwelling is “circumcision of the heart.”

    Galatians 3:6-9 (NASB) 6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

    Romans 4:9-12 (NASB) 9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.

    Abraham, then, is the model or pattern for Salvation for ALL who believe.
     
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    No it doesn't
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I would see it as repenting from our efforts and good works to save ourselves, and turn and trust in Christ alone to save us!
     
  8. 37818

    37818 Active Member

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    Respecfully, do you have some referencs to support that order?
    Regneration.
    believe.
    repent.
    obey.
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We have to be saved in order to be able to repent, as unsaved do not concern themselves with their sinning!
     
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  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    On the contrary, that's what works religion is all about - An attempt at quenching the convicting voice of the Spirit of God.

    Look at Catholicism and the whippings, flagellations, self immolations, to try to remove the guilt of sin which only the blood of Christ can do. upload_2019-1-19_9-25-24.jpeg
     
  11. Gup20

    Gup20 Active Member

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    Ephesians 1:13-14 (NASB) 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.​

    Indwelling of the Holy Spirit comes AFTER believing, not the other way around. The first person saved by grace through faith - Abraham - demonstrated this when he was made righteous for his faith prior to the Law being given & prior to righteousness being “sealed” in him. Abraham received the sign of circumcision, but the Holy Spirit’s indwelling is “circumcision of the heart.”

    Romans 4:9-12 (NASB) 9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.​

    So the Biblical order is:

    believe
    made righteous
    regenerate (spiritual circumcision, sealing)
    repent
    obey
     
  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Once again, why do we try to pour our eternal God into the mold of our view of the passage of time?

    Not that we never should as He has indeed chosen to enter the time continuum.
     
  13. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman New Member

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    The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind.

    Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this change of mind. Where salvation is in view, repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side, what you change your mind about and faith in Christ is on the positive side, the new direction of this change of mind. *Repentance and faith are two sides of the same experience of coming to and receiving Christ.

    In the context of Luke 13:3, Jesus challenged the people's notion that they were morally superior to those who suffered in such catastrophes. He called all to repent or perish. For some people though, prior to coming to the end result of repentance in receiving salvation (faith in Christ), they must change their minds about other specific things in order to get there.

    Repentance focuses on changing one's mind about his previous concept of God (as in Acts 17:30) and disbelief in God or false beliefs (polytheism and idolatry) about God (1 Thessalonians 1:9). On the other hand, this change of mind, focuses on the new direction that change about God must ultimately take, namely, trusting in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (Acts 20:21)

    The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8) not the essence of repentance. Certain people confuse the "fruit of repentance" with the "essence of repentance" (and also do the same thing with faith) and end up teaching salvation by works.

    I’ve heard certain people say, "If you want to be saved, repent of your sins, turn from your sins." If turning from your sins means to stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they stop sinning. And in that case, it is unlikely that anyone will be saved, since we don't know anyone who has ever "completely stopped sinning."
     
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  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Danthemailman,
    Hello Dan,

    Acts11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

    Repentance and faith are granted or graced to people.
    manual of theology dagg-book 4 introduction
     
    #34 Iconoclast, Jan 20, 2019 at 2:34 PM
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019 at 2:54 PM
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  15. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Active Member

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    Hank,
    Out of curiosity, what Scriptures convince you that the Holy Spirit "convicts" all men of their sins?
     
  16. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    NKJV John 16
    7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.
    8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
    9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;
    10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;
    11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
     
  17. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Active Member

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    Is that the only one, or do you know of more?
     
  18. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
     
  19. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Active Member

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    Hank,
    Based on what you've given me so far, I see this:

    " Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
    8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
    9 of sin, because they believe not on me;
    10 of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
    11 of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged."
    ( John 16:7-11 )

    Here's how I understand this passage:

    In verse 7 He tells the disciples that it is expedient ( practical ) that He leaves, because if He doesn't, the Comforter ( the Holy Spirit, John 15:26 ) will not come. If Jesus departs, He will send the Spirit to them.
    In verse 8 I see that when the Spirit is come, He will reprove ( correct, reprimand ) the world of sin, of righteousness and of judgment.
    In verse 9 I see Him telling them that the reason the Spirit will reprove the world of sin, is because they do not believe on Him.
    In verse 10 the reason for the reproval ( reprimand ) for righteousness is because He is going to His Father, and His disciples will see Him no more.
    Finally, in verse 11, the reason for the reprimand for judgment is because the prince of this world ( Satan ) is judged.

    God, through the Holy Spirit is reprimanding or reproving the world of sin.
    Will men heed that reprimand in and of themselves, or is there something else needed in order for a person to obey it?

    Personally, I understand it as "casting the light ( John 1:4, John 8:12, John 12:35-36, John 12:46, 1 John 1:5-7 ) of God's righteousness" on every man... not enlightening them, or revealing Himself to them.
    Christ states in other Scriptures that He is selective about whom He reveals both Himself and the Father to ( Matthew 11:27, Luke 10:22, John 14:21 ).
    That is why I conclude that John 1:9 does not mean that He enlightens, or shows Himself to, all men, but that He casts the light of His righteousness on our darkness ( John 3:19-20, Romans 1:21, Ephesians 4:17-19 ).

    Based on other Scriptures, I see that man's condition is in such a state, that true repentance towards God must be given or granted supernaturally ( Acts of the Apostles 5:31, Acts of the Apostles 11:18 ), because man will never repent due to his love for sin and darkness ( John 3:19-20 )...man will not come to the Light.


    May God bless you sir.:)
     
    #39 Dave Gilbert, Jan 20, 2019 at 5:05 PM
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019 at 5:12 PM
  20. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    It would seem that the written word plays a role here but I leave that up to God to figure out, it's beyond me.

    I personalize it - "EVERY man which comes into the world"

    Thanks I need all the blessing I can get. Bless you too :)
     
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