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Featured Is the DEATH sentence Biblical, or should America end it completely?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by righteousdude2, Jan 31, 2016.

  1. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    I'm a firm believer that he should not because of the grace and mercy Christ showed us on The Cross.

    I'm BIBLICALLY guilty of breaking the same whole of the law that he has, yet Christ has shown me mercy instead of giving me the death I so deserve.

    So it would behoove me to be okay with exacting a punishment upon someone else who broke the same Law that I did, but I, as a Christian, say kill him while Christ has shown me mercy.

    It's the sort of thing, with good reason, that makes people view Christians poorly.

    Pro-life HAS TO BE pro-life for everyone or else it really means nothing as a Christian, IMO.
     
  2. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    If we really believe the Holy Spirit can bring about repentance and God can forgive the worst of sinners, should we cut short that person's opportunity to repent?

    The death sentence is biblical and just. But if we really understood justice, we would understand that it is just for all of us to die. And yet we have grace. From the victim's family's perspective, it may or may not give closure to their pain, but it certainly won't change the past. But maybe since we are on this side of Christ, we can see how giving someone time to repent and turn their life around might have some value?

    The list of murderers in the Bible is pretty long as well and includes Moses, David and probably Paul.
     
    #22 Gold Dragon, Feb 3, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2016
  3. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    How many people must be murdered before we decide or admit that a murderer is unrepentent, and will most likely murder again?

    I am NOT pro-life; I am anti-abortion. Just as "pro-choice", in context of the argument in which people label themselves, is actually "pro-abortion" (you can't say you're against abortion, but support someone else's choice to have one; that's still supporting abortion).

    So what's the answer? Simply lock them up and feed and care for the unrepentent murderer for the rest of his/her life? Doesn't that violate "if you don't work, you don't eat"?

    If you could show me a system that would make the convicted murderer a productive member of society, I'd be interested in examing that further.
     
  4. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    How many murders does it take for a murderer to qualify as unrepentant or unforgiveable by God? 1, 2 .. 5? How do we know that a murderer will never repent? Can you tell by looking at them or by how many murders they have committed so far?

    If you remove the death penalty, life imprisonment is still available to prevent them from murdering again, or at least folks outside the prison system.

    I agree that life imprisonment is expensive. Many prisoners do work to support the prison system which is quite a lucrative source of labour for corporations. But I don't see how that factors into whether the death sentence is moral, right or biblical. The "expensive to keep alive" argument is the same argument that some people use to justify euthanasia of the elderly.

    I believe that the death penalty is just, biblical and cost effective. I'm just not sure it is the best position given what we believe about repentance and grace.
     
  5. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    How loudly did you cry when we took our revenge against osama bin laden?
     
  6. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member
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    A man rapes a teen, then kills her - NO witnesses. However, forensic data yields DNA evidence of John Doe being the rapist/killer.
    No conviction in this case, since NO witnesses?????

    Not trying to be obtuse, but just asking you to clarify your stance more clearly.
     
  7. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I bet some European nations may reinstitute the death penalty.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I could not in good conscious support the death penalty as being biblical in that case. I believe the command for two witnesses means two actual people giving testimony (even in the OT they had evidences of crimes). So I would convict the man, but I could not justify taking his life on biblical grounds.

    My stance on this issue is that the biblical reason behind justifying capital punishment (that man is made in Gods image) is also the reason not to exceed biblical ground when considering the death penalty. Scripture requires two witnesses and it is not up to me to rationalize away that requirement.

    So before we even discuss the death penalty from a Christian standpoint it seems logical to me that the conditions required by God have been met, and without two witnessed they haven't.

    Sent from my TARDIS
     
    #28 JonC, Feb 3, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2016
  9. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    I had prayed often for Osama Bin Laden's salvation if he had not already been saved. And upon hearing the news about him, the honest first thing that popped into my head was "I pray to God that somehow he got to hear the Gospel and make a decision for Christ if he had not already done so."

    I don't believe that we, as forgiven Christians, should be encouraging the taking of anybody's life. And IMO, any Christian who believes otherwise needs to pause and take a very long look at The Cross.
     
    #29 Zaac, Feb 3, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016
  10. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    Post Cross, I would disagree.
     
  11. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    "Best position" - no, not at all. It is something that is grave, somber, and *should* affect us deeply. It is NOT something we should not be encouraging; but we are stewards of that which God has given us, and we must weigh our responsibility as stewards into the equation.
     
  12. Rolfe

    Rolfe Well-Known Member
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    My opinion only. Those who oppose the death penalty because they claim to value life devalue innocent life.
     
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  13. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    My opinion is that it's unBiblical to think that any life is innocent of sin and therefore less worthy of the same death as every other sinner.

    The ground is level at the foot of the Cross.
     
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Hey Rolf. When you say that your opinion is that those who oppose the death penalty in truth devalues innocent life, I can think of a few possible reasons for your statement. You could be saying that the death penalty provides justice for victims of these crimes, that it removes a threat from society, or that it provides a strong deterrent against such actions (or, of course, other reasons entirely). In what way do you view an opposition to the death penalty as devaluing innocent life?
     
  15. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Not if those pictures I've seen of Calvary are the real thing.
     
  16. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    The death penalty is biblical. But the application of the death penalty by our government controlled justice system is anything but "equal justice under the law."

    The death penalty is applied way too irregularly for me. It has already been mentioned that the more money you have the less likely you will receive the death penalty.

    However, if your skin is black or brown you are way more likely to receive a sentence of death.

    If your capital crime involves the use/sale of crack cocaine (the drug of choice for the Hispanic/African-American community) you are 20 times more likely to receive a sentence of death than if your capital crime involves the use/sale of powdered cocaine (the drug of choice of the rich white community).

    Scriptural but not equal in application.
     
  17. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    I would agree with you that post Cross we need to consider the primacy of grace in any discussion of judgement because of our own grace. My position on this issue is essentially the same as yours.

    But I would not call grace the same thing as justice and in fact grace is by definition unjust. Justice is to receive that which we deserve. Grace is to receive that which we do not deserve.

    Whether the modern justice system is really just in its application of the death penalty and even the greater question of whether justice is really the purpose of the justice system is an entirely different discussion.

    But as individuals who have experienced grace, if we really see our own sin and our forgiveness the way God sees it, we would not think we are that different from murderers justly deserving of the death penalty. And hopefully we see that grace extended to us should also be extended to them.

    I do not expect the secular political and justice systems we live in to consider this aspect, but I would hope individual Christians do.
     
    #37 Gold Dragon, Feb 3, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2016
  18. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    The mic has been dropped!!! [​IMG]
     
  19. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
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    I'll bet you did!
     
  20. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    I said I did so why would anyone accept that bet?
     
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