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Is the GOSPEL a work of the Holy Spirit, or not?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Skandelon, Aug 11, 2011.

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  1. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    What hair do you want to split??
    The one that says:
    And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved. (Acts 16:31)
    or,
    To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43)

    Man is made in the image and likeness of God. That means that he is born with the ability to reason and to some degree think as God thinks; something animals cannot do. In that respect man is able to put faith in God or reject God.

    He doesn't need a mysterious, esoteric, inexplicable, intangible experience that no one can explain--an effectual work of grace (supposed regeneration)--an act of grace that happens before salvation. Now the Calvinist says that God gives the unsaved faith so that he can believe with God's faith to be saved. This is ludicrous.

    Rather man is able to believe in Christ (and his atoning work) and be saved. That is the simple gospel message taught in the Bible. Neither Winman or Skandelon will disagree with me on that. So I ask again: What hairs are you trying to split??
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    DHK,
    No..it is not ludicrous....Jesus said it was being born from above. Calvinists believe the truth that man died in the fall. They need God's mercy and Divine enablement. Salvation is a supernatural work of God....not the product of man doing or believing on His own.

    You believe something else.


    many have explained it correctly...you believe something else.

    While the work of God is somewhat mysterious...it is very tangible,and is biblically explained.


    DHK....your responses in post 81 are all wrong...everyone of them.

    DHK...you also said this;
    yet we read this....
    2 Thessalonians 3

    1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:

    2And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
     
    #102 Iconoclast, Aug 16, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2011
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Willis ,
    God does save all of the elect....

    Not all Israel was part of the elect remnant.
    God chose The nation of Israel to harvest His elect from.

    But only the children of promise;
    When Jesus told these physical descendants the truth of election according to promise , they wanted to kill HIM>

    God now has the gospel go worldwide to harvest his elect from.

    Not everyone in Israel, not everyone in the world...gets saved.:thumbs:
     
  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    :laugh:
    :laugh::laugh: very funny Van three points all wrong:thumbs:
     
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

    we believe this scripture Van...
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    :laugh::laugh::laugh: fiddlesticks...good response to truth Van:thumbs:
     
  7. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Hair? Men either have faith by nature or they do not. You say they do. Now Scandal says they do and denies ever saying they had not. Before I proceed, I want to know which doctrine he has chosen to finally believe. The one he expounded before, or the one he is expounding now.
     
  8. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Is his usurpation of a title of Christ something you can stomach?
     
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    OH, I thought he was suggesting banning the brother. In any event, If your going to stand on teaching the Calvinist the "Right Way to Believe" then it's my opinion (& I know what opinions are --We all have them) but you should have the rocks to take on all or your just not effective.... Id go so far as to say your impotent.
     
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Yes & the tarnished & distorted that likeness the moment he put himself before God & allowed sin to enter the world.

    So now, are we looking at Pre Sin Man or Post Sin Man?
     
  11. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    I think it is awesome that we can move mountain and God through the Gospel by the Holy Spirit in us can do it in His loving kindness and truth.

    We only can work with God has revealed to each individual and the more mountains that our moved they more they will see.

    A mountain in Christ does not need to be moved
     
  12. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Good answer. DHK has abated, by his words and teachings God's enabling and miraculous work of salvation to a mere outpatient procedure of an normal, unmoving, simplistic event akin to sitting on a chair. This view reeks of easy-believism.
     
  13. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Seems to me that "usurpation" is something you haven't definitively proven; and therefore, you should continue debating his points, using that big brain of yours, instead of petty personal attacks. But hey, that's only my opinion.
     
  14. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    1. I also believe that man must be born again or born from above.
    2. I also believe that man died in the fall. However I believe that you have a skewed definition of what "death" is. That is one difference.
    3. I also believe that man needs God's mercy and Divine enablement--but not given in the way that you describe.
    4. I also believe that salvation is a supernatural work of God and always to have. To say otherwise would be slanderous.
    5. To deny that man is saved by faith is to deny the facts of the Bible.
    --Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God. Clear enough?

    Do I really believe differently? Let's look at some of these supposed differences.
    1. The new birth: I believe it takes place at the same time as salvation. You believe it takes place prior to salvation.
    2. God told Adam "in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Adam died. But the fact is that Adam, being dead, still communed with God. You don't take this into consideration. How can a dead man talk with God? This took place but you deny the Scriptures saying it is impossible to happen. But Adam, being dead, still talked with God.
    --Answer: Dead does not mean lifeless. It means separated from God. Adam was separated by his sin. Sin separates. God took an animal and sacrificed it on behalf of Adam, thereby reconciling Adam to himself. Blood had to be shed. Reconciliation had to be made. The bridge between death (separation) and God had to be restored. And God restored that bridge with a sacrifice. Adam was not dead as in lifeless. He was dead as in being separated from God. The meaning of death is separation.

    3. Divine enablement is simply the conviction of the Holy Spirit
    4. There is no one on this board that doesn't believe that salvation is not a supernatural act of God.
    5. The Bible teaches that salvation is by faith and faith alone. Do you believe in sola fide?
    Of course I believe differently. I am not a Calvinist. But I believe that my beliefs are Biblical.
    The Holy Spirit is not tangible, but the experience can be explained in a rational way.
    No they are not; this is simply your opinion based on presuppositions.
    Don't misquote me. I said that faith is not a gift given to the unsaved
    What has that to do with the unsaved being given faith? That does not teach that the unsaved are given faith as a gift does it?
     
  15. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    No One can be saved by JUST the Gospel, as we are born into a spritual state/condition dead to God...

    so ANY who get saved is by God choosing to redeem them out of their dead state...

    Word of God agent that He uses to save by faith thom whom he has chosen in christ to redeem...

    is the Bible true when it states ALL of us died spiritually in Adam or not?
     
  16. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Tarnished but not lost.

    And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: (Genesis 5:3)
    --Now Seth was born after the likeness of Adam. The likeness of Adam indicates a sin nature.

    For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Romans 8:29)
    --We who are saved are partially restored to that image and likeness of God. We will be fully restored at our resurrection.
     
  17. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Yes, the Bible is true. But the definition of death is not lifelessness it is separation.
    In Eph.2:1 the Ephesians were made alive. They were once dead or separated from God. What separated them? It was sin. The sin barrier had to be removed. What removed it? The payment of sin at the cross of Calvary. Accept the gift of salvation by faith and they would be saved. The Holy Spirit would give them life. They would be reconciled to God as Adam was reconciled to God. It is God that gives life. It is sin that causes separation (death).
     
  18. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    We are ALL "made dead" by act of adam sinning against God, so we are muchworse of post fall than pre!
     
  19. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    It is not degrees. Dead is dead. Can a dead cat be any more dead than a dead dog? But in the Bible dead means separation. If you are separated from God you are separated from God.
     
  20. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    How dead is dead? Bible PLAINLY states that ALL of us died in Adam, dead in our sins and tresgressions, and ONLY made alive in Christ IF saved..

    Again, how dead is dead?
     
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